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* [Bitcoin-development] Address Expiration to Prevent Reuse
@ 2015-03-25  1:57 Tom Harding
  2015-03-25 10:09 ` Matt Whitlock
  2015-03-25 16:34 ` Gregory Maxwell
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Tom Harding @ 2015-03-25  1:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Bitcoin Development

The idea of limited-lifetime addresses was discussed on 2014-07-15 in

http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.bitcoin.devel/5837

It appears that a limited-lifetime address, such as the fanciful

address = 4HB5ld0FzFVj8ALj6mfBsbifRoD4miY36v_349366

where 349366 is the last valid block for a transaction paying this 
address, could be made reuse-proof with bounded resource requirements, 
if for locktime'd tx paying address, the following were enforced by 
consensus:

  - Expiration
    Block containing tx invalid at height > 349366

  - Finality
    Block containing tx invalid if (349366 - locktime) > X
    (X is the address validity duration in blocks)

  - Uniqueness
    Block containing tx invalid if a prior confirmed tx has paid address

Just an an idea, obviously not a concrete proposal.




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [Bitcoin-development] Address Expiration to Prevent Reuse
@ 2015-03-27  1:51 Thy Shizzle
  2015-03-27  3:13 ` Gregory Maxwell
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Thy Shizzle @ 2015-03-27  1:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: s7r, Gregory Maxwell, Tom Harding; +Cc: Bitcoin Development

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Yes I agree, also there is talks about a government body I know of warming to bitcoin by issuing addresses for use by a business and then all transactions can be tracked for that business entity. This is one proposal I saw put forward by a country specific bitcoin group to their government and so not allowing address reuse would neuter that :(
________________________________
From: s7r<mailto:s7r@sky-ip.org>
Sent: ‎27/‎03/‎2015 9:29 AM
To: Gregory Maxwell<mailto:gmaxwell@gmail.com>; Tom Harding<mailto:tomh@thinlink.com>
Cc: Bitcoin Development<mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Address Expiration to Prevent Reuse

This should not be enforced by default. There are some use cases where
address re-use is justified (a donation address spread on multiple
static pages or even printed on papers/books?). For example, I offer
some services on the internet for free, and I only have a bitcoin
address for donations which is posted everywhere. Obviously this could
possibly harm privacy, but not everyone who uses bitcoin wants to keep
all transactions private. To the contrary, there are accounting cases
when you need to archive all keys, hashes of transactions and
everything (for example when using btc inside a company which is
required by law to keep accounting registries).

I know it's not recommended to use the same pubkey more than once, but
the protocol was not designed this way. Enforcing something as
described in this topic will undermine an user's rights to re-use his
addresses, if a certain situation requires it.

On 3/26/2015 11:44 PM, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 9:26 PM, Tom Harding <tomh@thinlink.com>
> wrote:
>> I should have been clearer that the motivation for address
>> expiration is to reduce the rate of increase of the massive pile
>> of bitcoin addresses out there which have to be monitored
>> forever for future payments.  It could make a significant dent
>> if something like this worked, and were used by default someday.
>
> Great, that can be accomplished by simply encoding an expiration
> into the address people are using and specifying that clients
> enforce it.
>
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by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all
things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to
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conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [Bitcoin-development] Address Expiration to Prevent Reuse
@ 2015-03-27  4:31 Thy Shizzle
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Thy Shizzle @ 2015-03-27  4:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Gregory Maxwell; +Cc: Bitcoin Development

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Indeed, and with things like BIP32 it would be pointless to use one address, and I agree it is silly to reuse addresses, some for the privacy aspect, some for the revealing the pubkey on a spend aspect. But just because it is silly, doesn't mean it's necessarily required for devs to disallow it. I mean if a business doesn't care who can see their  bitcoin takings and they are willing to keep shifting the bitcoin and live woth the exposed pubkey let them yea?

http://www.forexminute.com/bitcoin/australian-association-asks-voluntary-bitcoin-register-individuals-companies-51183
________________________________
From: Gregory Maxwell<mailto:gmaxwell@gmail.com>
Sent: ‎27/‎03/‎2015 2:13 PM
To: Thy Shizzle<mailto:thyshizzle@outlook.com>
Cc: s7r@sky-ip.org<mailto:s7r@sky-ip.org>; Tom Harding<mailto:tomh@thinlink.com>; Bitcoin Development<mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Address Expiration to Prevent Reuse

On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 1:51 AM, Thy Shizzle <thyshizzle@outlook.com> wrote:
> Yes I agree, also there is talks about a government body I know of warming
> to bitcoin by issuing addresses for use by a business and then all
> transactions can be tracked for that business entity. This is one proposal I
> saw put forward by a country specific bitcoin group to their government and
> so not allowing address reuse would neuter that :(

I hope you're mistaken, because that would be a serious attack on the
design of bitcoin, which obtains privacy and fungibility, both
essential properties of any money like good, almost exclusively
through avoiding reuse.

[What business would use a money where all their competition can see
their sales and identify their customers, where their customers can
track their margins and suppliers? What individuals would use a system
where their inlaws could criticize their spending? Where their
landlord knows they got a raise, or where thieves know their net
worth?]

Though no one here is currently suggesting blocking reuse as a network
rule, the reasonable and expected response to what you're suggesting
would be to do so.

If some community wishes to choose not to use Bitcoin, great, but they
don't get to simply choose to screw up its utility for all the other
users.

You should advise this "country specific bitcoin group" that they
shouldn't speak for the users of a system which they clearly do not
understand.

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2015-06-13  4:52 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 17+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2015-03-25  1:57 [Bitcoin-development] Address Expiration to Prevent Reuse Tom Harding
2015-03-25 10:09 ` Matt Whitlock
2015-03-25 16:34 ` Gregory Maxwell
2015-03-25 18:44   ` Tom Harding
2015-03-25 19:22     ` Gregory Maxwell
2015-03-26 20:38       ` Tom Harding
2015-03-26 20:42         ` Gregory Maxwell
2015-03-26 21:26           ` Tom Harding
2015-03-26 21:33             ` Peter Todd
2015-03-26 21:44             ` Gregory Maxwell
2015-03-26 22:23               ` Tom Harding
2015-03-26 22:28               ` s7r
2015-03-26 23:00                 ` Gregory Maxwell
2015-06-13  4:52               ` odinn
2015-03-27  1:51 Thy Shizzle
2015-03-27  3:13 ` Gregory Maxwell
2015-03-27  4:31 Thy Shizzle

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