From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1YsFKm-0008S7-BQ for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 12 May 2015 18:55:16 +0000 X-ACL-Warn: Received: from p3plsmtpa09-02.prod.phx3.secureserver.net ([173.201.193.231]) by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1YsFKk-0003gw-JX for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 12 May 2015 18:55:16 +0000 Received: from [192.168.0.23] ([190.17.195.187]) by p3plsmtpa09-02.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with id T6v51q00b433uHa016v79e; Tue, 12 May 2015 11:55:08 -0700 Message-ID: <55524C89.6080705@certimix.com> Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 15:55:05 -0300 From: Sergio Lerner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Leo Wandersleb , "bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" References: <55505441.3010906@certimix.com> <5551021E.8010706@LeoWandersleb.de> In-Reply-To: <5551021E.8010706@LeoWandersleb.de> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070607090009000509010008" X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [173.201.193.231 listed in list.dnswl.org] 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Headers-End: 1YsFKk-0003gw-JX Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Reducing the block rate instead of increasing the maximum block size X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 18:55:16 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070607090009000509010008 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 11/05/2015 04:25 p.m., Leo Wandersleb wrote: > I assume that 1 minute block target will not get any substantial support but > just in case only few people speaking up might be taken as careful support of > the idea, here's my two cents: > > In mining, stale shares depend on delay between pool/network and the miner. This > varies substantially globally and as Peter Todd/Luke-Jr mentioned, speed of > light will always keep those at a disadvantage that are 100 light milli seconds > away from the creation of the last block. If anything, this warrants to increase > block target, not reduce. (The increase might wait until we have miners on Mars > though ;) ) An additional delay of 200 milliseconds means loosing approximately 0.3% of the revenue. Do you really think this is going to be the key factor to prevent a mining pool from being used? There are lot of other factors, such as DoS protections, security, privacy, variance, trust, algorithm to distribute shares, that are much more important than that. And having a 1 minute block actually reduces the payout variance 10x, so miners will be happy for that. And many pool miners may opt to do solo mining, and create new full-nodes. > > > If SPV also becomes 10 times more traffic intensive, I can only urge you to > travel to anything but central Europe or the USA. The SPV traffic is minuscule. Bloom-filers are an ugly solution that increases bandwidth and does not provide a real privacy solution. Small improvements in the wire protocol can reduce the traffic two-fold. > > > I want bitcoin to be the currency for the other x billion and thus I oppose any > change that moves the balance towards the economically upper billion. Because having a 10 minute rate Bitcoin is a good Internet money. If you have a 1 minute rate, then it can also be a retail payment method, an virtual game trading payment method, a gambling, XXX-video renting (hey, it takes less than 10 minutes to see one of those :), and much more. You can reach more billions by having near instant payments. Don't tell me about the morning caffe, I would like that everyone is buying their coffe with Bitcoin and there are millions of users before we figure out how to do that off-chain. Best regards, Sergio. --------------070607090009000509010008 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

On 11/05/2015 04:25 p.m., Leo Wandersleb wrote:
> I assume that 1 minute block target will not get any substantial support but
> just in case only few people speaking up might be taken as careful support of
> the idea, here's my two cents:
>
> In mining, stale shares depend on delay between pool/network and the miner. This
> varies substantially globally and as Peter Todd/Luke-Jr mentioned, speed of
> light will always keep those at a disadvantage that are 100 light milli seconds
> away from the creation of the last block. If anything, this warrants to increase
> block target, not reduce. (The increase might wait until we have miners on Mars
> though ;) )

An additional delay of 200 milliseconds means loosing approximately 0.3% of the revenue.
Do you really think this is going to be the key factor to prevent a mining pool from being used?
There are lot of other factors, such as DoS protections, security, privacy, variance, trust, algorithm to distribute shares, that are much more important than that.

And having a 1 minute block actually reduces the payout variance 10x, so miners will be happy for that. And many pool miners may opt to do solo mining, and create new full-nodes.

>
>
> If SPV also becomes 10 times more traffic intensive, I can only urge you to
> travel to anything but central Europe or the USA.
The SPV traffic is minuscule. Bloom-filers are an ugly solution that increases bandwidth and does not provide a real privacy solution.
Small improvements in the wire protocol can reduce the traffic two-fold.

>
>
> I want bitcoin to be the currency for the other x billion and thus I oppose any
> change that moves the balance towards the economically upper billion.
Because having a 10 minute rate Bitcoin is a good Internet money. If you have a 1 minute rate, then it can also be a retail payment method, an virtual game trading payment method, a gambling, XXX-video renting  (hey, it takes less than 10 minutes to see one of those :), and much more.

You can reach more billions by having near instant payments.
Don't tell me about the morning caffe, I would like that everyone is buying their coffe with Bitcoin and there are millions of users before we figure out how to do that off-chain.

Best regards,
 Sergio.


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