From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Ysv3c-00016P-Cc for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 14 May 2015 15:28:20 +0000 X-ACL-Warn: Received: from mail-pd0-f180.google.com ([209.85.192.180]) by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1Ysv3Y-0008Ir-QU for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 14 May 2015 15:28:20 +0000 Received: by pdbqd1 with SMTP id qd1so90460889pdb.2 for ; Thu, 14 May 2015 08:28:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=EDn93XY14CcXnZ6sg30KHQSCp425ZvVFPcsFyk63zYY=; b=Jh1y8gQr0v2aLFKlZ0P+Qg0iDlky15e0nDggPKNC9neeVKXZLNKIaHyKrqhVkW8efw AuWDgydxAiBEWUsZ+vtQmmLhhDl1DAdpVIW0jtteTkaXshfG6VgVuq6USvBLPZcnRkfV w+N5ZjSnPhcZzQjsdfbcroZyfsKiN1K+yw/oaFTCYoEJ/jmhOZgu3vp0K2Et6lq2j0Zl fIib8kSKRi9v8vRxMFJBupkLRcIIO0yHfquUX48bOwRDhcWlJLNP95d0eUkiOgA10agD S5tlhxVaKlN4BHee4cz1/sVxyLcYPT51YDbUbBtCeZU/3La7I9pv1oU3L/IouSjZIxP+ Z4qw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn19hBXEAjB0lQR5Sr3gXsroM8NQx3OwxQLKCl8eoEi1on6lah+G8R3E6DjzT7mSPua4yc+ X-Received: by 10.68.242.41 with SMTP id wn9mr8968260pbc.117.1431616962722; Thu, 14 May 2015 08:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.89] (99-8-65-117.lightspeed.davlca.sbcglobal.net. [99.8.65.117]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id qz7sm13928253pbc.11.2015.05.14.08.22.41 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 14 May 2015 08:22:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5554BDC1.6070206@thinlink.com> Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 08:22:41 -0700 From: Tom Harding User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bitcoin Dev Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. X-Headers-End: 1Ysv3Y-0008Ir-QU Subject: [Bitcoin-development] No Bitcoin For You X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 15:28:20 -0000 A recent post, which I cannot find after much effort, made an excellent point. If capacity grows, fewer individuals would be able to run full nodes.=20 Those individuals, like many already, would have to give up running a full-node wallet :( That sounds bad, until you consider that the alternative is running a full node on the bitcoin 'settlement network', while massive numbers of people *give up any hope of directly owning bitcoin at all*. If today's global payments are 100Ktps, and move to the Lightning Network, they will have to be consolidated by a factor of 25000:1 to fit into bitcoin's current 4tps capacity as a settlement network. You executing a personal transaction on that network will be about as likely as you personally conducting a $100 SWIFT transfer to yourself today.=20 For current holders, just selling or spending will get very expensive! Forcing block capacity to stay small, so that individuals can run full nodes, is precisely what will force bitcoin to become a backbone that is too expensive for individuals to use. I can't avoid the conclusion that Bitcoin has to scale, and we might as well be thinking about how. There may be a an escape window. As current trends continue toward a landscape of billions of SPV wallets, it may still be possible for individuals collectively to make up the majority of the network, if more parts of the network itself rely on SPV-level security. With SPV-level security, it might be possible to implement a scalable DHT-type network of nodes that collectively store and index the exhaustive and fast-growing corpus of transaction history, up to and including currently unconfirmed transactions. Each individual node could host a slice of the transaction set with a configurable size, let's say down to a few GB today. Such a network would have the desirable property of being run by the community. Most transactions would be submitted to it, and like today's network, it would disseminate blocks (which would be rapidly torn apart and digested). Therefore miners and other full nodes would depend on it, which is rather critical as those nodes grow closer to data-center proportions.