From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Z4FrZ-00037O-A6 for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sun, 14 Jun 2015 21:54:45 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of riseup.net designates 198.252.153.129 as permitted sender) client-ip=198.252.153.129; envelope-from=odinn.cyberguerrilla@riseup.net; helo=mx1.riseup.net; Received: from mx1.riseup.net ([198.252.153.129]) by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.76) id 1Z4FrX-0007Px-Lv for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sun, 14 Jun 2015 21:54:45 +0000 Received: from plantcutter.riseup.net (plantcutter-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.121]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C092642617 for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2015 21:54:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (Authenticated sender: odinn.cyberguerrilla) with ESMTPSA id 80A1320395 Message-ID: <557DF81C.5080803@riseup.net> Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2015 14:54:36 -0700 From: odinn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.7 at mx1 X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [198.252.153.129 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 SPF_HELO_PASS SPF: HELO matches SPF record -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.4 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay lines 0.1 AWL AWL: Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address X-Headers-End: 1Z4FrX-0007Px-Lv Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: Move Bitcoin Dev List to a Neutral Competent Entity X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2015 21:54:45 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I fully agree and support this idea. Some recent discussion on social media which touches on this very subject of bitcoin and sourceforge.... (I include nmap and gittorrent as well because those seem relevant, imho) https://twitter.com/jgarzik/status/607750046021357568 https://twitter.com/nmap/status/608418994236891137 https://twitter.com/ktorn/status/607818378531631106 https://twitter.com/ktorn/status/607822900331020288 On 06/14/2015 03:12 AM, Warren Togami Jr. wrote: > Discomfort with Sourceforge >=20 > For a while now people have been expressing concern about > Sourceforge's continued hosting of the bitcoin-dev mailing list. > Downloads were moved completely to bitcoin.org > after the Sept 2014 hacking incident of the SF project account. > The company's behavior and perceived stability have been growing to > be increasingly questionable. >=20 >=20 > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/08/gimp_dumps_sourceforge_over_do dgy_ads_and_installer > > November 2013: GIMP flees SourceForge over dodgy ads and > installer >=20 > https://lwn.net/Articles/646118/ >=20 > May 28th, 2015: SourceForge replacing GIMP Windows downloads >=20 > http://seclists.org/nmap-dev/2015/q2/194 >=20 > June 3rd, 2015: Sourceforge hijacked nmap's old site and > downloads. >=20 >=20 > When this topic came up over the past two years, it seemed that > most people agreed it would be a good idea to move. Someone always > suggests Google Groups as the replacement host. Google is quickly > shot down as too controversial in this community, and it becomes an > even more difficult question as to who else should host it. > Realizing this is not so simple, discussion then dies off until the > next time somebody brings it up. >=20 >=20 > http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/bitcoin-development/thread/19 43127.DBnVxmfOIh%401337h4x0r/#msg34192607 > > Somebody brought it up again this past week. >=20 >=20 > It seems logical that an open discussion list is not a big deal to=20 > continue to be hosted on Sourceforge, as there isn=92t much they > could do to screw it up. I personally think moving it away now > would be seen as a gesture that we do not consider their behavior > to be acceptable. There are also some benefits in being hosted > elsewhere, at an entity able to professionally maintain their > infrastructure while also being neutral to the content. >=20 >=20 > Proposal: Move Bitcoin Dev List to a Neutral Competent Entity >=20 >=20 > Bitcoin is a global infrastructure development project where it > would be politically awkward for any of the existing Bitcoin > companies or orgs to host due to questions it would raise about > perceived political control. For example, consider a bizarro > parallel universe where MtGox was the inventor of Bitcoin, where > they hosted its development infrastructure and dev list under their > own name. Even if what they published was 100% technically and > ideologically equivalent to the Bitcoin we know in our dimension, > most people wouldn't have trusted it merely due to appearances and > it would have easily gone nowhere. >=20 >=20 > I had a similar thought process last week when sidechains code was=20 > approaching release. Sidechains, like Bitcoin itself, are intended > to be a generic piece of infrastructure (like ethernet?) that > anyone can build upon and use. We thought about Google Groups or > existing orgs that already host various open source infrastructure > discussion lists like the IETF or the Linux Foundation. Google is > too controversial in this community, and the IETF is seen as > possibly too politically fractured. The Linux Foundation hosts a > bunch of infrastructure lists=20 > and it seems > that nobody in the Open Source industry considers them to be > particularly objectionable. I talked with LF about the idea of > hosting generic Bitcoin-related infrastructure development lists. > They agreed as OSS infrastructure dev is already within their > charter, so early this week sidechains-dev list began hosting > there. >=20 >=20 > From the perspective of our community, for bitcoin-dev it seems > like a great fit. Why? While they are interested in supporting > general open source development, the LF has literally zero stake in > this. In addition to neutrality, they seem to be suitable as a > competenthost. They have full-time sysadmins maintaining their > infrastructure including the Mailman server. They are soon > upgrading to Mailman 3 , which means > mailing lists would benefit from the improved archive browser. I > am not personally familiar with HyperKitty, but the point here is > they are a stable non-profit entity who will competently maintain > and improve things like their Mailman deployment (a huge > improvement over the stagnant Sourceforge). It seems that LF would > be competent, neutral place to host dev lists for the long-term. >=20 >=20 > To be clear, this proposal is only about hosting the discussion > list. The LF would have no control over the Bitcoin Project, as no > single entity should. >=20 >=20 > Proposed Action Plan >=20 >=20 > * >=20 > Discuss this openly within this community. Above is one example > of a great neutral and competent host. If the technical leaders > here can agree to move to a particular neutral host then we do it. >=20 > * >=20 > Migration: The current list admins become the new list admins. We=20 > import the entire list archive into the new host's archives for > user convenience. >=20 > * >=20 > http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/ Kill bitcoin-list and=20 > bitcoin-test. Very few people actually use it. Actually, let's=20 > delete the entire Bitcoin Sourceforge project as its continued=20 > existence serves no purpose and it only confuses people who find=20 > it. By deletion, nobody has to monitor it for a repeat of the > Sept 2014 hacking incident=20 > or=20 > GIMP-type hijacking ? >=20 > * >=20 > The toughest question would be the appropriateness of > auto-importing the subscriber list to another list server, as mass > imports have a tendency to upset people. >=20 >=20 > Thoughts? >=20 >=20 > Warren Togami >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - -------- > >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ Bitcoin-development > mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net=20 > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >=20 - --=20 http://abis.io ~ "a protocol concept to enable decentralization and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good" https://keybase.io/odinn -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVffgcAAoJEGxwq/inSG8COOsH/jC5TAjec1ridg9Ww/1+SW26 QvTaZ79PrK4+/5rvt3qXtCicOidGLTGpk/ixrgVN64nOiquaQm8JM/BrOrtZbYN0 /lXjhR6N8AEKYYvtjCQdD/JjNZ8Z0QvRZ4+XKUblBagm4BkRt4OtaVkctechscbM WiMh+SfUPPlGiuucotiBFliF4TprFTCw0w/+WY521yKE5qgTPc6ZKBHI5TzYROoF aAz7i6GlAZR0qlbV91IzakszZWF/Im6KHG30CYbU4eTb6Ic9tVHogC2EuW2zePd3 NxRXE4M0FunnVX61Eg3Bglm73h6SuzsL9x79Ckp0UXpZ8sJ7+mYCDKTZSUEWeJs=3D =3DXje2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----