From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Z67Ep-0005E2-S6 for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sat, 20 Jun 2015 01:06:27 +0000 Received: from bi.petersson.at ([46.4.24.198] helo=petersson.at) by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.76) id 1Z67Eo-0005uu-0W for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sat, 20 Jun 2015 01:06:27 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.11] (unknown [213.47.22.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: andreas) by petersson.at (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2903D2380A1D for ; Sat, 20 Jun 2015 03:03:39 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <5584B80A.7000403@petersson.at> Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 02:47:06 +0200 From: Andreas Petersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net References: <20150619103959.GA32315@savin.petertodd.org> <20150619154054.GA13498@savin.petertodd.org> <6716121.uS5ifrNBZv@crushinator> In-Reply-To: <6716121.uS5ifrNBZv@crushinator> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------020804040701010504060602" X-Spam-Score: -0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -0.3 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain X-Headers-End: 1Z67Eo-0005uu-0W Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] F2Pool has enabled full replace-by-fee X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 01:06:27 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020804040701010504060602 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have some experience here. If you are seriously suggesting these measures, you might as well kill retail transactions altogether. In practice, if a retail place starts to accept bitcoin they have a similar situation as with cash, only that the fraud potential is much lower. (e.g. 100-dollar bill for a sandwich might turn out fake later) and the fraud frequency is also much lower. 0-conf concerns were never a problem in practice. except for 2-way atms i have never heard of a problem that was caused by double spends. while adding these measures is generally positive, requiring them means excluding 99.9% of the potential users. so you might as well not do it. RBF as implemented by F2Pool just flat out lowers Bitcoins utility value. So it's a bad thing. for any online or automated system, waiting for a handful of confirmations was always recommended practice. Am 19.06.2015 um 22:39 schrieb Matt Whitlock: > Retail POS merchants probably should not be accepting vanilla Bitcoin > payments, as Bitcoin alone does not (and cannot) guarantee the > irreversibility of a transaction until it has been buried several > blocks deep in the chain. Retail merchants should be requiring a > co-signature from a mutually trusted co-signer that vows never to sign > a double-spend. =20 --------------020804040701010504060602 Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="0xAA4EDEEF.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0xAA4EDEEF.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (MingW32) mQENBFE+J6QBCACukOnkSNgOwm6LMA+JZTX9+pUTZ6swZXcSv+eSv614p8dTUB0C +LGgr+Hm/cVuySkbvgygNOmSKJqyP0Lv98fYZBHFzVFdyz8l17VYpOj/sIfekgEo wKIOY4urv7LbTEj+L5Hzku4ilECoKwN7ySQtYYA06APQDSLyuhvvTTCDeLuWhzbH 8a7PHiX4x1VbgXZfqggZHuy66L+VUtN8Dtwqhih8tUapSQpDxF06KBuH27/1CuoZ dn2DUu+C/fvd1R31S2qEu8GNI4rwvztnL94vObeIxSy8GDKoAMgPq9hCsDe+6u7g m12mgbNSPzvFiI1G0keoleWH6VCSbBkeins/ABEBAAG0QUFuZHJlYXMgUGV0ZXJz c29uICh2YWxpZCBzaW5jZSAyMDEzLTAzLTExKSA8YW5kcmVhc0BwZXRlcnNzb24u YXQ+iQE4BBMBAgAiBQJRPiekAhsPBgsJCAcDAgYVCAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAK CRC4t7etqk7e71E0B/9c/CVIDIofdV30g80gjs0oNnLA8NTaFwSOD4U+Y1O6GNme xAwTqDHJCuF+rmY48qwB9GYpdBXBYeIzlHbaznRYIln91baMjyZ8gxoU/A4Xgrt3 +05ez92uY61DG2dfd1NHLXZJgdsmj841fW2UTU9HW37eh65XCCIgdWgVMdBI++Uz rvk6JBKw/fLSH4ukSnZ0wFAdkJJ1dFSE9OxgDc/TcDxR7eQqt87WwCUBEXZgXWgi f8/eTHQZe+4ta5aAV05wSw0InEu+TTndTL/nqwOtxJzwH6HUtvem4HlL33VDiN42 gGzgxYmhHN++ZSMyqKbHsSRpodSDSEoPS9gKI+ZV =3DeIZG -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --------------020804040701010504060602--