From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49F86B8B for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2015 00:21:49 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-pa0-f42.google.com (mail-pa0-f42.google.com [209.85.220.42]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB283A7 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2015 00:21:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pabvl15 with SMTP id vl15so112834086pab.1 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 2015 17:21:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=u+jHpiN3rA0emD12UNClnfDJuaeg/G+6QUwhF4+gTHs=; b=FYjLPWI1yVa4OY7ULZx2CUOH4uqTXkOWYqHRNSzhs1HE8ntJr6b63PT6flL3srLBwm 1JsGYAncKoj4h+ah08jm0Up1tP0fxAYqIjfb1EDjCiuqDBN0lStrXGaHxYy+AzuKc5om A9U8q+QqPYAuAdSyqP0t81E2Oq5GCubRytES9Q8dSBHYNG5uqQDgseYThXF1yu4Fx0bo vOTMKIcDghpwaGBSJvUWx4qFnW1IU6zZz5XgKMW0H1OWBs/b0RG/KmzkLPfZdwaRJ07B 5HJoCYKEQgUYlsIHtkS9DnGl5xbXZjPlGGQDLunmNA75n/QbtS9fz1Z2qJ/eLfGUoAA3 ZDmg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk80V4ZxHdkmcSuIePxTGsC+sQn3DUbIsnSjV0EIs3wqhgb2+A6iY++J5oLTRQuU6yJILWq X-Received: by 10.70.103.200 with SMTP id fy8mr36799608pdb.136.1435623708570; Mon, 29 Jun 2015 17:21:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.100.1.239] ([204.58.254.99]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id pz5sm16868796pdb.27.2015.06.29.17.21.46 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 29 Jun 2015 17:21:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5591E10F.9000008@thinlink.com> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 17:21:35 -0700 From: Tom Harding User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Todd References: <20150629050726.GA502@savin.petertodd.org> In-Reply-To: <20150629050726.GA502@savin.petertodd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP: Full Replace-by-Fee deployment schedule X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2015 00:21:49 -0000 On 6/28/2015 10:07 PM, Peter Todd wrote: > Worryingly large payment providers have shown > willingness(4) to consider extreme measures such as entering into legal > contracts directly with large miners to ensure their transactions get mined. > This is a significant centralization risk and it is not practical or even > possible for small miners to enter into these contracts, leading to a situation > where moving your hashing power to a larger pool will result in higher profits > from hashing power contracts; if these payment providers secure a majority of > hashing power with these contracts inevitably there will be a temptation to > kick non-compliant miners off the network entirely with a 51% attack. > Your incomprehensible meddling with successful usage patterns threatens to have unintended consequences directly in opposition to your own stated goal of decentralization. And yet you persist. As we deliberately break things and turn the P2P network into a completely unpredictable hodge-podge of relay policies, we should expect many more participants to bypass the P2P network entirely. Many of the pieces are already in place. If we wanted the P2P network to have more predicable behavior, it would be possible for nodes to provide incentives to their neighbors. For example, if you had a pair of nodes, you could test your peers to see that they actually do relay "standard" transactions. This would have emergent usability benefits for the P2P network as a whole.