From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C7B4C8D7 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 22:06:04 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-pd0-f170.google.com (mail-pd0-f170.google.com [209.85.192.170]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3ACD916F for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 22:06:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pdbfa8 with SMTP id fa8so23985310pdb.1 for ; Sun, 09 Aug 2015 15:06:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:disposition-notification-to:date:from:user-agent :mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type; bh=t4oHeCSR8wYD0B8KwkM+UogH/NdRnV6NHLsr0t/gzIg=; b=mC9wtKo0o8WzugN3JRq1ZeFkLeWbSjld/aYgU52FcDbpPiVOj+GN3AvVdbf/+0L0v+ oieioufmtlEruikyPnOoQ+NMkG8r7JDC5NSAoSbL6emUPCYlMKcCjQVBAjAtqpJyHljc 8wOQnIUASo9GeC0A0yrneB8Z+hZb8A8390I3JOCgBVxSWUWCB2Tj6jCxzZPPz924w/Un bkv1mUw7QmRPwXjGB4mw1dggIXkO+jO1RG/Hr2KheTq5ZSP1UpovteZ7PEuCl4o58pzi 7W5RGwQ5pxLuTl7bsX5VAEqUongEAcPGIiWhjIEFpnYpHKbgAufgg2EntCQGCibADkQD P9ig== X-Received: by 10.70.55.229 with SMTP id v5mr37823508pdp.136.1439157963995; Sun, 09 Aug 2015 15:06:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.45.134.100] (c-67-188-9-126.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [67.188.9.126]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id q1sm17607059pap.20.2015.08.09.15.06.03 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 09 Aug 2015 15:06:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <55C7CECB.7050905@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2015 15:06:03 -0700 From: Patrick Strateman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/31.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org References: <55C79FF0.8040100@thinlink.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------090309080505070909050109" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAD_CREDIT,BAYES_00, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=no version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] What Lightning Is X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2015 22:06:05 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090309080505070909050109 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I suspect there is some amount of confusion here on terms. The hub is essentially swapping funds between payment channels. The hub's entire business is centered around having payment channels open with other hubs/users. If the hub requires user funds to open these channels... then the users have no reason to pay the hub anything in fees. A hub that doesn't use it's own funds to open payment channels to other hubs/merchants is useless. On 08/09/2015 02:27 PM, Tom Harding via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > On Aug 9, 2015 11:54 AM, "Mark Friedenbach" > wrote: > > > On the contrary the funds were advanced by the hub on the creation > of the channel. There is no credit involved. > > That's a chuckle.=20 > > As I said, nothing requires the hub to advance anything, and if it > does, Bob can expect to pay for it. > > We'll see whether hubs assess a fee for depositing funds, whether the > fee depends on the amount deposited, and whether it depends on the > amount of time it stays there. > > I predict "all of the above." There is a name for these kinds of > fees. Can you guess it? > > > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev --------------090309080505070909050109 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I suspect there is some amount of confusion here on terms.

The hub is essentially swapping funds between payment channels.

The hub's entire business is centered around having payment channels open with other hubs/users.

If the hub requires user funds to open these channels... then the users have no reason to pay the hub anything in fees.

A hub that doesn't use it's own funds to open payment channels to other hubs/merchants is useless.

On 08/09/2015 02:27 PM, Tom Harding via bitcoin-dev wrote:

On Aug 9, 2015 11:54 AM, "Mark Friedenbach" <mark@friedenbach.org> wrote:

> On the contrary the funds were advanced by the hub on the creation of the channel. There is no credit involved.

That's a chuckle. 

As I said, nothing requires the hub to advance anything, and if it does, Bob can expect to pay for it.

We'll see whether hubs assess a fee for depositing funds, whether the fee depends on the amount deposited, and whether it depends on the amount of time it stays there.

I predict "all of the above." There is a name for these kinds of fees.  Can you guess it?



_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev

--------------090309080505070909050109--