From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 24A1A8D9 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 22:27:02 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-pd0-f179.google.com (mail-pd0-f179.google.com [209.85.192.179]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8777E18C for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2015 22:27:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pdbfa8 with SMTP id fa8so24086661pdb.1 for ; Sun, 09 Aug 2015 15:27:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:disposition-notification-to:date:from:user-agent :mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type; bh=k4OuaCfX62GihR8rQ1hQR115qiAnv3qh20ic2Tsk6R4=; b=ZyB1kq+CoEL895oEQIZSpnuAjD1wZ2iehcnWWkxRwVUHx8sfDR334wVqSx4bHoBa2Z 23pVRieldHQu6mCAduIj7wOOB+6EH1DjISr78HkpMXzHWPoL16sQytoXs9zt87y4uMHi JXHbLyi1vuDtX2UdXdIJUzrHDmEQic32KIESWKSy5D4KEPFtKoawQ9pZBfHR9P5NQzHP xRIcV1XUTZvuCxoH8UQ123/qu9fhsJbKdUn5L4yJoK370pHJOOTbZEAH8X0ZzPvdofm1 9RRupZ79iVJ37xVH8f0qQ9LUG/eOxt1NEQ80GtA4cPoUufZaZKb39Vl4mOj0qV+iq3vB VQIw== X-Received: by 10.70.47.232 with SMTP id g8mr13874757pdn.67.1439159221294; Sun, 09 Aug 2015 15:27:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.45.134.100] (c-67-188-9-126.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [67.188.9.126]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id kx11sm7694616pab.13.2015.08.09.15.27.00 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 09 Aug 2015 15:27:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <55C7D3B4.90004@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2015 15:27:00 -0700 From: Patrick Strateman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/31.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bitcoin Dev References: <55C79FF0.8040100@thinlink.com> <55C7CECB.7050905@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060801070505080704000103" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAD_CREDIT,BAYES_00, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=no version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] What Lightning Is X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2015 22:27:02 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060801070505080704000103 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That was not in reply to you. On 08/09/2015 03:09 PM, Hector Chu wrote: > Right, you've stated a bunch of facts, but how does it answer my > concerns of the exploding cost of the network the more interconnected > it it? > > On 9 August 2015 at 23:06, Patrick Strateman via bitcoin-dev > > wrote: > > I suspect there is some amount of confusion here on terms. > > The hub is essentially swapping funds between payment channels. > > The hub's entire business is centered around having payment > channels open with other hubs/users. > > If the hub requires user funds to open these channels... then the > users have no reason to pay the hub anything in fees. > > A hub that doesn't use it's own funds to open payment channels to > other hubs/merchants is useless. > > > On 08/09/2015 02:27 PM, Tom Harding via bitcoin-dev wrote: >> >> On Aug 9, 2015 11:54 AM, "Mark Friedenbach" > > wrote: >> >> > On the contrary the funds were advanced by the hub on the >> creation of the channel. There is no credit involved. >> >> That's a chuckle. >> >> As I said, nothing requires the hub to advance anything, and if >> it does, Bob can expect to pay for it. >> >> We'll see whether hubs assess a fee for depositing funds, whether >> the fee depends on the amount deposited, and whether it depends >> on the amount of time it stays there. >> >> I predict "all of the above." There is a name for these kinds of >> fees. Can you guess it? >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> bitcoin-dev mailing list >> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > --------------060801070505080704000103 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit That was not in reply to you.

On 08/09/2015 03:09 PM, Hector Chu wrote:
Right, you've stated a bunch of facts, but how does it answer my concerns of the exploding cost of the network the more interconnected it it?

On 9 August 2015 at 23:06, Patrick Strateman via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
I suspect there is some amount of confusion here on terms.

The hub is essentially swapping funds between payment channels.

The hub's entire business is centered around having payment channels open with other hubs/users.

If the hub requires user funds to open these channels... then the users have no reason to pay the hub anything in fees.

A hub that doesn't use it's own funds to open payment channels to other hubs/merchants is useless.


On 08/09/2015 02:27 PM, Tom Harding via bitcoin-dev wrote:

On Aug 9, 2015 11:54 AM, "Mark Friedenbach" <mark@friedenbach.org> wrote:

> On the contrary the funds were advanced by the hub on the creation of the channel. There is no credit involved.

That's a chuckle. 

As I said, nothing requires the hub to advance anything, and if it does, Bob can expect to pay for it.

We'll see whether hubs assess a fee for depositing funds, whether the fee depends on the amount deposited, and whether it depends on the amount of time it stays there.

I predict "all of the above." There is a name for these kinds of fees.  Can you guess it?



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bitcoin-dev mailing list
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https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev



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