From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7D0697 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 17:18:06 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-pd0-f172.google.com (mail-pd0-f172.google.com [209.85.192.172]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 07B41109 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 17:18:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pdrh1 with SMTP id h1so67690384pdr.0 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 10:18:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=8LbyORnFncDHVKkcbeOx7/SO6PyTNZDo9ZQ/tda7ohU=; b=NfjOhj47D3oKeoTKv44VFzlJda9O9StTLZlo47XW4ifudz/BP/o5pERNTaL/fodIkd MjuASL56uO6J7nqpA7N72c/os/fEHPW8Yv4ZiD4XN1w1pahBzQpWqAWNk5EV0adF3Jhw vwrooKawnXJ7JpYkPauu1Y0uP0o7E3hMYHHyrGUjodMnDG5tucGcRHoRFUvJMSh65Eg8 ksWa5zhW0ZcsHOItqBaitmXzalVurIYiEQBA4DyOiWX1gzSQTY0Xm4b111p2FZqATn2l /W65kjOQaCnkzQRWtp2zgk8iab4EWJC/4PV2WYl2Sklw2p8tJU9oAf52uiI7Xyz66Cjt Nq0w== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmqkgt5i9WyvWdeR+o+P8bjom3z94B8GsB2PjrtzOqp0qZRa+1lhOzvvkwiAsJa0H8MZxfn X-Received: by 10.70.39.34 with SMTP id m2mr54145798pdk.148.1439313485737; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 10:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.17] (c-24-5-43-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [24.5.43.190]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id gh5sm3338070pbc.87.2015.08.11.10.17.58 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 11 Aug 2015 10:17:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <55CA2E46.3040608@bitcartel.com> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 10:17:58 -0700 From: Simon Liu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hector Chu , Adam Back References: <55C79FF0.8040100@thinlink.com> <55C7CECB.7050905@gmail.com> <20150810210240.GC12450@navy> <20150810211901.GD12450@navy> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] What Lightning Is X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 17:18:06 -0000 There's also an interesting question posted over at Reddit - will Lightning payment hubs be treated as money transmitters in the US? https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoin_uncensored/comments/3gjnmd/lightning_may_not_be_a_scaling_solution/ A payment hub operator working with brand name merchants like Disney and Gap would most likely adopt any licensing and AML/KYC regulations. Some folk might thus find themselves forced to use anonymous hubs with strict routing requirements to avoid commercial hubs. Given the reduced number of available channels, this could drive up lightning network fees for those folk. Of course, two parties can avoid any intermediary by using a regular on-chain transaction, but it might not be feasible if Bitcoin is operating as a settlement network with high transaction fees. On 08/11/2015 02:01 AM, Hector Chu via bitcoin-dev wrote: > Lightning will never catch on as it basically demands that everyone who > uses it to become a speculator. Payment hubs and merchants will be at > the mercy of the bitcoin price while their funds stay locked up in > payment channels. This idea is a dead-end. > > On 10 August 2015 at 22:43, Adam Back via bitcoin-dev > > wrote: > > In terms of usage I think you'd more imagine a wallet that basically > parks Bitcoins onto channels at all times, so long as they are > routable there is no loss, and the scalability achieved thereby is > strongly advantageous, and there is even the potential for users to > earn fees by having their wallets participate in channel rebalancing > (where hubs pay users to rebalance channels - end up with the same net > position but move funds from one user-owned channel to another.) > Exchange deposit, withdrawal, payments, even in-exchange trades can > usefully happen in lightning for faster, cheaper more scalable > transactions. > > Adam > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > > > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >