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From: Tom Harding <tomh@thinlink.com>
To: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Fees and the block-finding process
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 17:56:05 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <55CA99A5.8070002@thinlink.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CALqxMTFfUdMuNsNnx-B+SPq7HvQyA+NkvFHGVYPiFHn-ZipVJw@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/11/2015 2:23 PM, Adam Back via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> I dont think Bitcoin being cheaper is the main characteristic of
> Bitcoin.  I think the interesting thing is trustlessness - being able
> to transact without relying on third parties.
>

That rules out Lightning Network.

Lightning relies on third parties all over the place.  Many things must 
be done right, and on-time by N intermediate third parties (subject to 
business pressures and regulation) or your payment will not work.

Lightning hubs can't steal your money.  Yay!  But banks stealing your 
payment money is not a problem with today's payment systems. Some real 
problems with those systems are:

  - Limited ACCESS to payment systems
  - High FEES
  - Transaction AMOUNT restrictions
  - FRAUD due to weak technology
  - CURRENCY conversions

Plain old bitcoin solves all of these problems.

Bitcoin does have challenges.  THROUGHPUT and TIME-TO-RELIABILITY are 
critical ones.  DECENTRALIZATION and PRIVACY must not be degraded.  
These challenges can be met and exceeded.



  parent reply	other threads:[~2015-08-12  0:56 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 94+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-08-07 14:57 [bitcoin-dev] Fees and the block-finding process Gavin Andresen
2015-08-07 15:16 ` Pieter Wuille
2015-08-07 15:55   ` Gavin Andresen
2015-08-07 16:28     ` Pieter Wuille
2015-08-07 17:47       ` Ryan Butler
2015-08-07 18:25         ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-08-07 18:57           ` Ryan Butler
2015-08-07 19:07             ` Ryan Butler
2015-08-07 19:15               ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-08-07 20:17                 ` Ryan Butler
2015-08-07 20:33                   ` Dave Hudson
2015-08-07 18:17       ` jl2012
2015-08-07 18:35         ` Bryan Bishop
2015-08-07 18:36         ` Simon Liu
2015-08-11 23:20       ` Elliot Olds
2015-08-07 17:33     ` Jorge Timón
2015-08-07 22:12       ` Thomas Zander
2015-08-07 23:06         ` Adam Back
2015-08-08 22:45           ` Dave Scotese
2015-08-08 23:05             ` Alex Morcos
2015-08-09  5:52               ` Hector Chu
2015-08-09 10:32               ` Thomas Zander
2015-08-09 10:42             ` Thomas Zander
2015-08-09 20:43               ` Dave Scotese
2015-08-11 17:03                 ` Jorge Timón
2015-08-10 11:55       ` Jorge Timón
2015-08-10 12:33         ` Btc Drak
2015-08-10 13:03           ` Jorge Timón
2015-08-10 22:13         ` Thomas Zander
2015-08-11 17:47           ` Jorge Timón
2015-08-11 18:46             ` Michael Naber
2015-08-11 18:48               ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-08-11 18:55                 ` Michael Naber
2015-08-11 19:45                   ` Jorge Timón
2015-08-11 21:31                     ` Michael Naber
2015-08-11 18:51               ` Bryan Bishop
2015-08-11 18:59                 ` Michael Naber
2015-08-11 19:27               ` Jorge Timón
2015-08-11 19:37                 ` Michael Naber
2015-08-11 19:51                   ` Pieter Wuille
2015-08-11 21:18                     ` Michael Naber
2015-08-11 21:23                       ` Adam Back
2015-08-11 21:30                         ` Angel Leon
2015-08-11 21:32                           ` Pieter Wuille
2015-08-11 21:34                           ` Adam Back
2015-08-11 21:39                             ` Michael Naber
2015-08-12  6:10                               ` Venzen Khaosan
2015-08-11 22:06                             ` Angel Leon
2015-08-11 21:35                         ` Michael Naber
2015-08-11 21:51                           ` Pieter Wuille
2015-08-12  3:35                             ` Elliot Olds
2015-08-12  4:47                               ` Venzen Khaosan
2015-08-14 21:47                                 ` Elliot Olds
2015-08-12  0:56                         ` Tom Harding [this message]
2015-08-12  1:18                       ` Eric Voskuil
2015-08-12  8:10                     ` Thomas Zander
2015-08-12  9:00                       ` Jorge Timón
2015-08-12  9:25                         ` Thomas Zander
2015-08-11 19:53                   ` Jorge Timón
2015-08-11 20:56                     ` Michael Naber
2015-08-12  7:54                 ` Thomas Zander
2015-08-12  8:01             ` Thomas Zander
     [not found]             ` <1679272.aDpruqxXDP@coldstorage>
2015-08-12  8:51               ` Jorge Timón
2015-08-12  9:23                 ` Thomas Zander
2015-08-12  9:45                   ` Jorge Timón
2015-08-12 16:24                     ` Thomas Zander
2015-08-17 14:49                     ` BitMinter operator
2015-08-17 15:01                       ` Peter Todd
2015-08-10 14:12       ` Gavin Andresen
2015-08-10 14:24         ` Alex Morcos
2015-08-10 22:12           ` Thomas Zander
2015-08-10 14:34         ` Pieter Wuille
2015-08-10 22:04           ` Thomas Zander
2015-08-20 14:40           ` Will Madden
2015-08-10 14:55         ` Jorge Timón
2015-08-10 22:09           ` Thomas Zander
2015-08-10 22:52             ` Pieter Wuille
2015-08-10 23:11               ` Pieter Wuille
2015-08-11  5:34               ` Thomas Zander
2015-08-11  6:03                 ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-08-11  6:31                   ` Thomas Zander
2015-08-11  7:08                     ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-08-11  8:38                       ` Thomas Zander
2015-08-11  9:14                         ` Angel Leon
2015-08-11 19:00                           ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-08-11 19:26                             ` Michael Naber
2015-08-11 20:12                               ` Adam Back
2015-08-12  0:32                           ` odinn
2015-08-11 11:10                       ` Thomas Zander
2015-08-12  0:18                       ` odinn
2015-08-07 21:30   ` Jim Phillips
2015-08-07 18:22 ` Anthony Towns
2015-08-07 18:36 ` Peter R
2015-08-12  1:56 Corey Haddad

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