From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF9B27AE for ; Wed, 12 Aug 2015 00:56:55 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-pa0-f54.google.com (mail-pa0-f54.google.com [209.85.220.54]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F79A174 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 2015 00:56:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pabyb7 with SMTP id yb7so1998722pab.0 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 17:56:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=UY7LWsoDV5Ika/Jui3b6/l9NQxJKwWhyVwerFxisukg=; b=L2Eg5sN0YT/MGLiolKTdCkL1K3FPL9P5B9B+4qszh6M1IHCXvsKAdBScOCSrsGUtO+ OhW0RW2k3MlP7Y9sFaEQWQ5SvYfRabnF1qxT9DutyG0CuyYmJGvkiT3gPBd6evCdrlG6 fkJzxVs6O29x81PdfHmxUc/K+sNlmE3Vrc0rLPRqSKl6kWPfxHubEc4GyrsjNik59NML n9lmGZ+fmOl/EJkNfin5kCXjaLBi5akZYpnfLwzo3s+AnUkgBYmNOuSKRAepU1B/Nsyl KX05Zw6TZq38+OvNQLlgTedjUdftLxCP3bAVRxd1xdaDMretRIAjCZ69m/sGpNjiSniG xOEA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlciJ0uA59/vNBl2oxS1mEDRLA5RLtPK0L9fy5zPpYKVwqyZ23B5sRIdnDejJTzE/lkpW3/ X-Received: by 10.66.118.39 with SMTP id kj7mr62082123pab.115.1439341014966; Tue, 11 Aug 2015 17:56:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.100.1.239] ([204.58.254.99]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id j3sm4115901pbq.88.2015.08.11.17.56.52 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 11 Aug 2015 17:56:53 -0700 (PDT) To: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org References: <8181630.GdAj0CPZYc@coldstorage> From: Tom Harding Message-ID: <55CA99A5.8070002@thinlink.com> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 17:56:05 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Fees and the block-finding process X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 00:56:55 -0000 On 8/11/2015 2:23 PM, Adam Back via bitcoin-dev wrote: > I dont think Bitcoin being cheaper is the main characteristic of > Bitcoin. I think the interesting thing is trustlessness - being able > to transact without relying on third parties. > That rules out Lightning Network. Lightning relies on third parties all over the place. Many things must be done right, and on-time by N intermediate third parties (subject to business pressures and regulation) or your payment will not work. Lightning hubs can't steal your money. Yay! But banks stealing your payment money is not a problem with today's payment systems. Some real problems with those systems are: - Limited ACCESS to payment systems - High FEES - Transaction AMOUNT restrictions - FRAUD due to weak technology - CURRENCY conversions Plain old bitcoin solves all of these problems. Bitcoin does have challenges. THROUGHPUT and TIME-TO-RELIABILITY are critical ones. DECENTRALIZATION and PRIVACY must not be degraded. These challenges can be met and exceeded.