From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 81B6E7D for ; Fri, 14 Aug 2015 02:26:42 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail.bihthai.net (unknown [5.255.87.165]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5DDBA7D for ; Fri, 14 Aug 2015 02:26:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.8.0.6] (unknown [10.8.0.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: venzen) by mail.bihthai.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 32A392127C; Fri, 14 Aug 2015 04:28:43 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <55CD51D9.50103@mail.bihthai.net> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 09:26:33 +0700 From: Venzen Khaosan Reply-To: venzen@mail.bihthai.net Organization: Bihthai Bai Mai User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Geir Harald Hansen , Bitcoin Dev References: <55CD13AB.2050604@bitminter.com> In-Reply-To: <55CD13AB.2050604@bitminter.com> OpenPGP: id=1CF07D66; url=pool.sks-keyservers.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] A summary list of all concerns related to not rising the block size X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 02:26:42 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Geir, In the scenario below, you argue that the current 1MB limit would lead to "constantly full" blocks. If the limit is increased to say 1.6GB then a government or banking group may choose to utilize 1.5GB of the capacity of each block (and pay fees or not) for their settlement network. Then how did upping the blocksize remedy anything? Or is this use-case not plausible? I would like to ask you, or anyone on the list: when we say that mining secures the network, what does that mean? On 08/14/2015 05:01 AM, Geir Harald Hansen via bitcoin-dev wrote: > 3) A few more people begin using bitcoin. Bitcoin buckles and > dies. > > - Something happens a few months from now causing an influx of new > users and more transactions. - Blocks are constantly full. - A > backlog of transactions keeps growing indefinitely. - At first > people say "bitcoin is slow". After a while they say "bitcoin > doesn't work". - Changing the hard limit on block size requires a > fork and takes too long. - As bitcoin no longer works people stop > using it. - Bitcoin lives out the last of its days in the > backwaters of the internet with only 5 users. They keep telling > people "we increased the block size now". Unfortunately noone is > listening anymore. - People laugh at you and say "I told you that > buttcoin thing was doomed to fail. After all it wasn't real > money." > > If the hard limit had been increased earlier then mining pools > would have been able to react quickly by upping their own soft > limit. But this was not the case and so ended Bitcoin. > > So in summary: > > By increasing the block size limit you run the risk of: - The > transaction fee market takes a little longer to develop. By not > increasing the limit you run the risk of: - Bitcoin dies. The end. > > Transaction fees should not be the main topic of this discussion, > and probably not even a part of it at all. That seems outright > irresponsible to me. > > Regards, Geir H. Hansen, Bitminter mining pool > > On 12.08.2015 11:59, Jorge Timón via bitcoin-dev wrote: >> I believe all concerns I've read can be classified in the >> following groups: >> >>> 1) Potential indirect consequence of rising fees. >> >> - Lowest fee transactions (currently free transactions) will >> become more unreliable. - People will migrate to competing >> systems (PoW altcoins) with lower fees. >> >>> 2) Software problem independent of a concrete block size that >>> needs to be solved anyway, often specific to Bitcoin Core (ie >>> other implementations, say libbitcoin may not necessarily share >>> these problems). >> >> - Bitcoin Core's mempool is unbounded in size and can make the >> program crash by using too much memory. - There's no good way to >> increase the fee of a transaction that is taking too long to be >> mined without the "double spending" transaction with the higher >> fee being blocked by most nodes which follow Bitcoin Core's >> default policy for conflicting spends replacements (aka "first >> seen" replacement policy). >> >> I have started with the 3 concerns that I read more often, but >> please suggest more concerns for these categories and suggest >> other categories if you think there's more. >> _______________________________________________ bitcoin-dev >> mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >> > > _______________________________________________ bitcoin-dev mailing > list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVzVHWAAoJEGwAhlQc8H1myaoH+QFo+eTqPqMps/h/Lt5P4Ker UIyCbouatdrRnKqJlpa+dy70+nK+nkz6fizXLC8fuWFDLPQ2uk1cUnp7FPcJ+f6L LdGiUktcF/osbA5DW/Xt1DQnClnfbR04oH3+l5ouwhTG2FL8018RQKTAZXYaQafE /GUzXBZt+dxpENE2ZE0YDORcm62cysFB8KiqS7NmrNC3sig/Bnw0k8x8y745LcSO j/icLJ/zlSVhtceb8AnSg5bC2xhKXrTsGQBfr4foDh78n0+xcbEQO/6xc29rydeB l8VwzqCwyFZScM/4lhgYHgEB2KE3MecGNy0vh7jKVqh9lQUMlWtpHRy/Nony5mA= =MEzL -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----