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From: Justus Ranvier <justus@openbitcoinprivacyproject.org>
To: Monarch <monarch@cock.li>, Allen Piscitello <allen.piscitello@gmail.com>
Cc: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Your Gmaxwell exchange
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 16:54:30 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <55E4CD16.3010508@openbitcoinprivacyproject.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <91e79f981126ebe62e30df26e0c7ec50@cock.li>


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On 08/31/2015 04:42 PM, Monarch wrote:
> The justification for the existence of Bitcoins hinges on it.  What is
> described in the whitepaper is a system without the trust of third
> parties to process electronic payments, this can not exist without
> decentralization.  Absent any unforseen revelations this is a
> requirement rather than a suggestion or fleeting fancy.  Below a
> decentralized Bitcoin you are free to make systems as centralized as
> you please without affecting the parent, below a centralized Bitcoin
> there is no room to make it less.  We really only have one shot at a
> properly bootstrapped, decentralized currency, and it would be a great
> shame to mess up the one we have with hasty decision making for
> unclear goals.

You keep using the word "decentralized" without explaining (and most
likely, understanding) what it means.

You say:

> a system without the trust of third parties to process electronic payments

What does it mean to use a decentralized network instead of a trusted
third party to process electronic payments? What undesirable actions can
a trusted third party perform that a decentralized network can not perform?

The answer to those questions are the *actual* goals, for which
decentralization is just one portion of a solution.

It might be helpful to organize Bitcoin's various existing, potential,
rejected, and proposed features using the Kano model:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kano_model

Example: The ability of one entity to spend another entity's Bitcoins
without their consent is a reverse quality.

It would at least give us something objective to talk about.

-- 
Justus Ranvier
Open Bitcoin Privacy Project
http://www.openbitcoinprivacyproject.org/
justus@openbitcoinprivacyproject.org
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  reply	other threads:[~2015-08-31 22:01 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 35+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-08-31 20:06 [bitcoin-dev] Your Gmaxwell exchange Monarch
2015-08-31 20:27 ` Justus Ranvier
2015-08-31 20:48   ` Monarch
2015-08-31 21:24     ` Allen Piscitello
2015-08-31 21:42       ` Monarch
2015-08-31 21:54         ` Justus Ranvier [this message]
2015-08-31 22:53           ` Monarch
2015-08-31 23:24             ` Justus Ranvier
2015-09-01  0:02             ` Milly Bitcoin
2015-09-01  9:25           ` Jorge Timón
2015-08-31 23:32       ` Peter R
2015-08-31 23:47         ` s7r
2015-09-01  2:16           ` [bitcoin-dev] Let's kill Bitcoin Core and allow the green shoots of a garden of new implementations to grow from its fertile ashes Peter R
2015-09-01  2:25             ` Gregory Maxwell
2015-09-01  8:42             ` Adam Back
2015-09-01 10:16               ` Chris D'Costa
2015-09-01 11:20                 ` Monarch
2015-09-01 12:24             ` Wladimir
2015-09-01 22:06             ` s7r
2015-09-01 11:44           ` [bitcoin-dev] Your Gmaxwell exchange Monarch
2015-09-01 11:11         ` Monarch
2015-09-01 15:59           ` Dave Collins
2015-09-01 16:51             ` Monarch
2015-09-01 18:37               ` Eric Voskuil
2015-09-01 20:08                 ` Monarch
     [not found] <CAEgR2PFB3h_8fr=d8HegRSD0XdooimhFKtLR4vKr2QXv+EwBfQ@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found] ` <AD284610-4F40-445C-A074-CC94EDFFCBA8@gmx.com>
2015-08-30  3:25   ` Gregory Maxwell
2015-08-30  4:13     ` Peter R
2015-08-30  4:57       ` Gregory Maxwell
2015-08-30  6:38         ` Adam Ritter
2015-08-31 18:55           ` Justus Ranvier
2015-08-31 19:11             ` Mike Hearn
2015-09-01 20:29             ` Wladimir J. van der Laan
2015-09-02 18:51               ` Justus Ranvier
2015-09-01  2:30           ` Oliver Petruzel
2015-08-30  7:41         ` Peter R

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