From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Delivery-date: Wed, 01 Jan 2025 04:25:31 -0800 Received: from mail-qt1-f190.google.com ([209.85.160.190]) by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1tSxn0-0006ZM-Tb for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Wed, 01 Jan 2025 04:25:31 -0800 Received: by mail-qt1-f190.google.com with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-467c08e67easf219836841cf.1 for ; Wed, 01 Jan 2025 04:25:30 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1735734324; cv=pass; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=M7A53xwK89f3WEYvDb3sGEXDxHFIMQC6d+FiueeUKSqHMdpcV4pAQquXcj7xZeRBoM h0SaGhZdxgZcM3oUprh1G6YxpDJS9qOC4t7I6BYXS9t257ZP2qq3sSNDORtW8dhdB1jW sNn/mq4WDhVwA3prnB1m4mGvb0IWy7WiPkqozy/DYxk42t0vGUW5mkBj+NPTWs0Cl9Ax Eh6OmxGUMDeZZ7wsTle8eW4WDnadL+Wkng1kcoXjgmvN3LJi9VKxBAO6mXAGNHMM84Tx cL5x7p8cvEYDkAFi3QjrFnQ1ttFfkieNjw1Tz0ut/tZdJwUA1x6fP+8GoXs3CrIHyFP5 7JBw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:message-id:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:date:mime-version:sender:dkim-signature; bh=04pVYM2mVxYWXVTaaAgV5ST/sLwRNXeo8XlnjQgHgws=; fh=/Ftc05xjZTqvLYjWOGtnHUU21GbC+dnI/RHQnnV/7gw=; b=dgyYEhaOrK4z9EkddvNhJMjB6HPtaS+xLjc4ZLgTHL+xMT/wwWlTwbpYAtwkY/wJ7B 7d7CuCbJsj4gK36QQLNzRwEFFYxjEsp8yZDY6IqDeWtxvHZNpDn81T56iSHjP0rJ8Yax t2Y2ikw72gYD+qtIeXLXRHq10iTDDmlSzjtFps47xewCZxfU+kmrFCdkMQPVZb08YYRf yfGYMBSSKYg6+CXbCHoAUUUhmaV+l1Usm2XNQB33ZEwhrNULSjyMp+W1A6x0I3OQ6Ecv SL1FT1oGhFFNKZyzUMjjprw+JG7wsB/dmj3Q4InnW1Ex8pIrEHeA59BpfNqy1hrUq/fS RAww==; darn=gnusha.org ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of dave@dtrt.org designates 208.79.240.5 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dave@dtrt.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1735734324; x=1736339124; darn=gnusha.org; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:message-id:references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to :from:date:mime-version:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=04pVYM2mVxYWXVTaaAgV5ST/sLwRNXeo8XlnjQgHgws=; b=ZuQMQ4CD7ZJ60rAbBt8SY4mVAJhy9PEFPdAbma43pr0AhEXYwVH9GvspjBdVp0Chx/ LOk35gpMhSb1jM3kQ+K/rtEgjqCaO4WHIbqF3sHngjC5uzIrI6AdJChOAqhHN+xcy7WH VcYf/TTgOpCR9bdU+VG/CfuOA4sQKXdCS/Eh3cvwvPLukdeie9Cmuhs/BjCYiR5MyB6R GQcjN+gJ2N7fPv9gwYwm3Ev5ugxvwRmh/+Y9FYQ0OcfLzYyeSNfQoCKZCeUKMFshe1Kf oGnJUj5QpouvQH/SHzQleZxvulcUlzoqGAI14gkUxx6CzNkGTEMBgG2r4mFxXhf2jsnh H+2g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1735734324; x=1736339124; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:message-id:references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to :from:date:mime-version:x-beenthere:x-gm-message-state:sender:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=04pVYM2mVxYWXVTaaAgV5ST/sLwRNXeo8XlnjQgHgws=; b=Z1qZa1ZIgun5KddB9tJXOYvuxvC4sxWx5QCNCu2+D/ePGomdUfO9ZevV0wGmSLM1Mh 1cuVnd7II+KRt/Mu2axkg+NVVP48Lvbnq79Ho90FDQ+TUfbFRufQZ8062axSGrH421aS WmLlvlOWW+B93iZzHx2zn3C9v24MF+9zxts7n60hNHSEyMI7O+edGgUsfSo9GALxU34K cPGG0Ypd6x+/XOJ+MnYqjFPwSEQnwHSCZMEEuNdm/WngMF643tqT5RtdMIDOsool2DxF jcA/xG+Vv3gVDOD99AxgAXZd49ShfZm59+dtIznUOvSeK0UB82GON1GHmLJHbFf43v8X gZtQ== Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCV5dl29QUqk5/sIXhu5nEsTIUsjb8Z7rtlFPOt1IlwF1Y7tJwIZFHl1NPzJVvFvI3aZPQ4ZGIeoKmB+@gnusha.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yyq3XY62PZyrzuYQYajlpejzFrovBh9LfZS0cqzJy3YhMtHQ1/n HTQgox+/qkFeNu+etAr5HVRY0C5n1aX0WSDTkmK+bK5KbBoOTlUb X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IG+BgJAseFighwIheRW176b58Igk0iMR0Z7XbXNQ1yKNJewOxiHwDtxgSVa1QGiINyjNYys3g== X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:cf:b0:467:b649:6a46 with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-46a4a96c043mr648465621cf.42.1735734324468; Wed, 01 Jan 2025 04:25:24 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com Received: by 2002:ac8:7ed3:0:b0:466:a845:1c92 with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-46a3b196e7dls12737321cf.1.-pod-prod-07-us; Wed, 01 Jan 2025 04:25:22 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:ac8:574f:0:b0:467:73a5:4635 with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-46a4a8cc491mr663165921cf.15.1735734321926; Wed, 01 Jan 2025 04:25:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 2002:a05:620a:470b:b0:7b6:dcc4:6708 with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7b9ab1e40f8ms85a; Wed, 1 Jan 2025 00:38:07 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:1543:b0:386:41bd:53b4 with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-38a222002d9mr34906167f8f.34.1735720685463; Wed, 01 Jan 2025 00:38:05 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1735720685; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=VKjp2Vljhm9CfOIAk647tFeuOSNsR31RHbJYiBbzEaqp98Dp+GWAvhW6nMqsTD4J4G a/hDRxauQEjT2XFH8U6s8wix7cpxPUtfA1qFRIdbKddI4qPxpWFj1QU2yxiWhnVH3OzD 0Xnq5asJ+K3NCAYkJfl9LuuOG3CVEkP/10jE8ALAqnWIHCv94uU0NMh0gW7f7btWAp/y ZUcHStxcUYQCJiXRJywVlTNnx4iD0jyZB+LRyiSnKB5wAdsq5WQXLqs5OGfzd66hT+UF OSZqmXbA4p67USe1h3X7kBJMGVJme5n0I0IkoVBP87OAFOXrurzNu3urPhgqBJVerbgJ 1xrQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:in-reply-to:subject :cc:to:from:date:mime-version; bh=rxRPtN9wQrDMsW+ky5XMTitVe3VqjnsgXuP9q1V91R8=; fh=iL9DSYpC5RGeithzN5d/JVKj3o11LZT+9z7PU5q/3vc=; b=lXaIGq75n0Rdo9WKaIKVGh7fgBexKojv9I8gxRq1d//w3/Kzy/8RqxNagHzNz/aUrN Zb6YnK3j4qoUQ5JqCxRltaAEHenIaf+czlNubLw4EjUGQkmQkfmL3xqXaDb73Yq7BgLM sUbeYdnNIhnfTYxgAptv4JptcB6D+oqEWTkiPaIJvv7qyUeshFvlrcLYmIR6wnwWSdb6 vkZEKYMh8CCklGiqp1UP6Bno9yb+yNhIRovhYAZU/MUNqf8En/d2jbnlPjQ5/sKJsgRu pFuJcLS144fEJZ2IrUqPiVK0ecVhpnQivfQ5sLXMKnhDHfE6Z7UvUpPrslMyztPletc3 9SKg==; dara=google.com ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of dave@dtrt.org designates 208.79.240.5 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dave@dtrt.org Received: from smtpauth.rollernet.us (smtpauth.rollernet.us. [208.79.240.5]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 5b1f17b1804b1-4364b058038si22667165e9.1.2025.01.01.00.38.05 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 01 Jan 2025 00:38:05 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of dave@dtrt.org designates 208.79.240.5 as permitted sender) client-ip=208.79.240.5; Received: from smtpauth.rollernet.us (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtpauth.rollernet.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id A69A32801850; Wed, 1 Jan 2025 00:38:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from webmail.rollernet.us (webmail.rollernet.us [IPv6:2607:fe70:0:14::a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by smtpauth.rollernet.us (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Wed, 1 Jan 2025 00:38:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2024 22:38:00 -1000 From: "David A. Harding" To: Tadge Dryja Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Trivial QC signatures with clean upgrade path In-Reply-To: <374d6201-fb43-48df-abbc-f01ef1944a7dn@googlegroups.com> References: <374d6201-fb43-48df-abbc-f01ef1944a7dn@googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <56e0005eb75e4f1720a5aabbcdb0535c@dtrt.org> X-Sender: dave@dtrt.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed X-Rollernet-Abuse: mailto:abuse@rollernet.us https://www.rollernet.us/policy X-Rollernet-Submit: Submit ID 6560.6774fee8.ec701.0 X-Original-Sender: dave@dtrt.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of dave@dtrt.org designates 208.79.240.5 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dave@dtrt.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) On 2024-12-16 12:20, Tadge Dryja wrote: > An on-chain proof of quantum computer (PoQC I guess :) ) would be a > way to reduce the damage of activation forks. One way to build it: > Create a NUMS point pubkey - something like described in BIP341. Send > some coins to that address, then watch if it gets spent. [...] > Nodes can then have code which > watches for such a proof and changes consensus rules based on it. I think this could be even more useful if combined with a previous idea far creating a NUMS[1][3] (or trust minimized[2]) pubkey compatible with Bitcoin but with a security strength less than 128 bits. That way someone might claim the bounty of the key with (say) 96 bits security potentially months or years before QC advances made regular keys insecure and tempted operators of QCs into stealing from regular user addresses. -Dave [1] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAH5Bsr20n2T7KRTYqycSUx0iEuEApC8NGtPCfN8rYhRyHLE4gA@mail.gmail.com/ [2] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/aRiFFJKz5wyHFDi2dXcGbNEHZD2nIwDRk7gaXIte-N1BoOEOQ-ySYRnk0P70S5igANSr2iqF2ZKV1dWvipaQHK4fJSv9A61-uH7w4pzxKRE=@protonmail.com/ [3] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAH5Bsr39kw08ki76aezJ1EM9e7mdLFLUmtKwJJNYcyuMpR_Cuw@mail.gmail.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/56e0005eb75e4f1720a5aabbcdb0535c%40dtrt.org.