From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from silver.osuosl.org (smtp3.osuosl.org [140.211.166.136]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32342C0052 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 01:52:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by silver.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15DFA23504 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 01:52:55 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org Received: from silver.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id asqsX6WpQXzG for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 01:52:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail.cock.li (mail.cock.li [37.120.193.124]) by silver.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD73B230FB for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 01:52:52 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cock.li; s=mail; t=1606269163; bh=sJMy6QbPpOZdnk79Quja00KrJZ938iG5+QcBErNlkl4=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=DyFGXWe/06ThCqYawWlmoylnp+Lhp4J0AQrwkPuFO7zx9NPhJzIbW+/NDOh5vAIWT Fz2lyLQ7zMyWzjeXRTAK1+E4X/tqCMe+OPHWuch/XPoLQT4FVvXhHPaydV8+r84nsB OOquE6s2bxcB/xFovl4j+0jPd6Li22uZMKdGuCuJ/xvguJrESKfOBOppFQvPh2YBcQ dxq3elq4b6RBor6JHXIE/rWCPfaMB4OHYTudOg7M1bIpt2kGBvHYj7hBMbw4G5nrbZ m6eDtlWyw8WgUx2IFn+upqfprDwOUWOYCXdWrIB5cJulvKYwGfVmyjdcB+EECLs77x 3Hp9yhlfMWr9w== Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 01:52:08 +0000 From: yanmaani@cock.li To: AdamISZ , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <60346b02bca27cc14a950373490250ac@cock.li> X-Sender: yanmaani@cock.li User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.3.15 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 02:34:53 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bulletin boards without selective censorability for bitcoin fungibility markets X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 01:52:55 -0000 On 2020-11-23 12:24, AdamISZ via bitcoin-dev wrote: > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ > On Monday, 23 November 2020 00:40, AdamISZ via bitcoin-dev > wrote: > >> Canvassing opinions/critiques from those working on bitcoin and >> related protocols. >> >> See the attached gist for a write-up of an outline of an idea, which >> is conceived for joinmarket but can apply in other scenarios where >> there is market for liquidity and in which privacy is a very high >> priority (hence 'bitcoin fungibility markets' can certainly include >> coinswap along with coinjoin, but possibly other things): >> >> https://gist.github.com/AdamISZ/b52704905cdd914ec9dac9fc52b621d6 > > Greg Maxwell pointed out to me on IRC that this idea doesn't work: > there is only a receipt on the commitment to the offer (message) from > the maker, not on the plaintext version, hence there is nothing > stopping the maker from falsely claiming censorship after not sending > the plaintext. > > Reflecting on this a bit more, my intuition is that this problem is > much more difficult than I had hoped; if there is a solution I suspect > it involves much more sophisticated ideas. Many solutions just end up > begging the question by presuming the existence of an uncensorable BB > in order to create a new one; and/or use the blockchain for that > function, but that is too slow and expensive, usually. I'd be happy to > be proved wrong, though :) > > waxwing > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev Blockchains are bad for this, because you don't want for it to cost money to use your bulletin board. However, the problem was solved more than a decade ago. Look into FMS, which combines Usenet/mailing lists with a web of trust for spam resistance.