From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Delivery-date: Sun, 24 May 2026 12:48:35 -0700 Received: from mail-oi1-f187.google.com ([209.85.167.187]) by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1wREoM-0003tX-IY for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Sun, 24 May 2026 12:48:34 -0700 Received: by mail-oi1-f187.google.com with SMTP id 5614622812f47-4857b690da7sf1357356b6e.3 for ; Sun, 24 May 2026 12:48:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20251104; t=1779652108; x=1780256908; darn=gnusha.org; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-sender:mime-version :subject:references:in-reply-to:message-id:to:from:date:sender:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=v/kT4EpKXl6SLD91POLIu4vfuON+ofd/qc4rnSUE0y0=; b=jFekdkDMdLOxg2yEE2SvSNvlha7ptIe5/FVwodfagL9DDw8XoW7wIY9WNqCHtSUFpU GQw/7YGm07DUS0sxUw/juN1jdzKX40+33pX3wGEsPwcRJ8t8eGn1XOx5vglaTOJoJVTO in7l9PYoOeUqdZKqEBLyKB9/661hbf12lZiZLXhhlw6B59Fy86DuXeQ2sMqS9HnyIA2v Kwf6aXp7wjLSWLc8qsuklMK5yv6l00HvYJnsXjk7En4/TjXD98ywCtJ3u+W6LRxolGBK kBTyNsyDQMyM5PfDQsVZpzoYWMbABL3NCl4nbQGn2u+E43Z+K0jk1iFmhy3aLsGKRzVs hW8g== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=voskuil.org; s=google; t=1779652108; x=1780256908; darn=gnusha.org; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-sender:mime-version :subject:references:in-reply-to:message-id:to:from:date:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=v/kT4EpKXl6SLD91POLIu4vfuON+ofd/qc4rnSUE0y0=; b=TXw5jgGWd5cYuJx8K1Sr37IktEoMxt5bT+KddcplO2Ae/ASRWcqL9BsS/ni8qyMWp8 evFgtDTNmSn5e3uJECyGXQfrQYclGokVwrfP3wLW/YGgpIrUybgxxJ/T0WRHHynO0Rn1 pyb/NFmLjBxU1kOgO4tbKJip3l5B0MANgnCi+K9TDgnt3QeG/UeVL6XWhswwGdv4vAlo Fd91CZBBUDZCTjYA7cH6MBjsejva4ltnobXltFHH1fXrwnQIKxaQULf+lr0MmI7nLKn4 jfdjSvJLl+cUVWcLzKrQITg4roWAEEb55V4FxoQmHPk1sSGQ8ltvRTtRobVlklB3K3I2 gvIg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20251104; t=1779652108; x=1780256908; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-sender:mime-version :subject:references:in-reply-to:message-id:to:from:date:x-beenthere :x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=v/kT4EpKXl6SLD91POLIu4vfuON+ofd/qc4rnSUE0y0=; b=WsQ6Kb0ZTKv2E/eFS5LG1tAWyy/uOr3AKYHHYmWDYk8iiyeutDgOnTDoS5tH/RWtLc 3LVksRDpFX+ya71tfn7j29haROBzEVQ82TAb0kOspoU9rP/28a2DaSP3OY91HIpc4Aj9 VgoULz+EB4N4JLy/6/4IDaCvS3KQshE4Nikxuauv12v7Wo+DTdGtZmSEq4PAPAY5oKno q/Bmk7s6/GhiQ1irRuNZbYwTAkzsofMTHtHOkFQ2H7oxQolbtIf8rAZf2jvcADg4rkYu mP3b2YBtAgqAc/y20NSiXoQpDoM9UT9sccfIt0TMotCsb5rZoTUN86L1UXgmMaqekUhD Jl2g== Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AFNElJ+P53U/Jwb3B/HMR7FljaEgWableH9+6M2yvZY7q40M12Xs2rD2xxlgNbfzgbAm7jITEhBft6Qrf/jh@gnusha.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwJG4w6GfLTNyANHDGV6hg76jCXUK4thGpkxJaDwqAJLUJamOJj SAjbKi/uQpvw0Pe2Po9WjtA0cGMCt/HaoSIEk0HgDIMI4GabVnJCW/ee X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:2220:b0:463:efb4:f9a2 with SMTP id 5614622812f47-4854a3b9c78mr7194859b6e.28.1779652107986; Sun, 24 May 2026 12:48:27 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; h="AUV6zMObD9VTX2FI8E+1Pw53WBKBneG37/ZVNmGH5m5WyoArYw==" Received: by 2002:a05:6870:6041:b0:430:2c03:d0f5 with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-43a01129c5fls6405499fac.0.-pod-prod-05-us; Sun, 24 May 2026 12:48:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:c2f9:b0:47a:ae7:b604 with SMTP id 5614622812f47-48549edb06fmr7282908b6e.21.1779652100518; Sun, 24 May 2026 12:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 2002:a05:690c:a081:20b0:7ba:f1b3:9504 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-7d36931b84cms7b3; Sun, 24 May 2026 12:32:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:4b83:b0:7d0:1b14:2ccc with SMTP id 00721157ae682-7d33b449324mr135624227b3.47.1779651166768; Sun, 24 May 2026 12:32:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 24 May 2026 12:32:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Voskuil To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Message-Id: <6292786d-6509-486d-945c-b8c7f6225e81n@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: References: <8661e699-47d8-46e4-a561-41c5d2fdc0e6n@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Re: [BIP Draft] P2P UTXO Set Sharing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_444758_1594912875.1779651166330" X-Original-Sender: eric@voskuil.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) ------=_Part_444758_1594912875.1779651166330 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_444759_204363794.1779651166330" ------=_Part_444759_204363794.1779651166330 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >Hi Josie, > ... > Hosting the files would give a constant attack surface to the process > of fetching them. At any point the server could be DoS'd, the network > layer could be attacked (BGP, DNS), admins could be compromised, legal > avenues explored to take down hosting providers or ISP connections, > regional reliability issues can disrupt this and so on. As you point out immediately below, this is actually just a cost... > Sure, these are problems that most internet companies face and where > solutions exist but these are usually costly and require constant > maintenance. Yes, there is a cost for hosting your own content. Sure, anyone can create the content, but it's unusable without the trusted authority. You have confirmed this by repeatedly pointing out that the authority is trustworthy (they write the code and engage in public review), while at the same time suggesting that there is no such authority (and unspecified in the BIP). It's not clear which it is... trusted authority or untrustworthy. > The uptime of the bitcoin network has famously been pretty good The fact that it's cheaper for you is not justification for foisting an identity/authority/trust-based system onto the Bitcoin network. You're explaining to us how you will centralize Bitcoin validation, but that you don't want to pay for it. It's not exactly the most compelling argument. e -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/6292786d-6509-486d-945c-b8c7f6225e81n%40googlegroups.com. ------=_Part_444759_204363794.1779651166330 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Hi Josie,
> ...
> Hosting the files would give a consta= nt attack surface to the process
> of fetching them. At any point t= he server could be DoS'd, the network
> layer could be attacked (BG= P, DNS), admins could be compromised, legal
> avenues explored to t= ake down hosting providers or ISP connections,
> regional reliabili= ty issues can disrupt this and so on.

As you point out immediate= ly below, this is actually just a cost...

> Sure, these are p= roblems that most internet companies face and where
> solutions exi= st but these are usually costly and require constant
> maintenance.=

Yes, there is a cost for hosting your own content.

S= ure, anyone can create the content, but it's unusable without the trusted a= uthority. You have confirmed this by repeatedly pointing out that the autho= rity is trustworthy (they write the code and engage in public review), whil= e at the same time suggesting that there is no such authority (and unspecif= ied in the BIP). It's not clear which it is... trusted authority or untrust= worthy.

> The uptime of the bitcoin network has famously been= pretty good

The fact that it's cheaper for you is not justifica= tion for foisting an identity/authority/trust-based system onto the Bitcoin= network. You're explaining to us how you will centralize Bitcoin validatio= n, but that you don't want to pay for it. It's not exactly the most compell= ing argument.

e

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