From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1YDcr6-0005Qi-3v for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 17:44:44 +0000 X-ACL-Warn: Received: from wp059.webpack.hosteurope.de ([80.237.132.66]) by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.76) id 1YDcr3-0007we-Gw for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 17:44:44 +0000 Received: from [37.143.74.116] (helo=[192.168.0.100]); authenticated by wp059.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) id 1YDcqw-0008Hb-No; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 18:44:34 +0100 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9B025A66-A90F-486E-9E8F-9D5721B7746D"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Tamas Blummer In-Reply-To: <2236907.ZtrNgikFVR@crushinator> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 18:44:31 +0100 Message-Id: <656E7756-5F0B-4594-B9F1-8CC68C7A5EE5@bitsofproof.com> References: <20150120154641.GA32556@muck> <2236907.ZtrNgikFVR@crushinator> To: Matt Whitlock X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de; tamas@bitsofproof.com; 1421775881; ed0aaee7; X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [80.237.132.66 listed in list.dnswl.org] 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Headers-End: 1YDcr3-0007we-Gw Cc: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] The legal risks of auto-updating wallet software; custodial relationships X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 17:44:44 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_9B025A66-A90F-486E-9E8F-9D5721B7746D Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9CFA6F8D-CBE9-493F-B638-8F36149E7FA4" --Apple-Mail=_9CFA6F8D-CBE9-493F-B638-8F36149E7FA4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Knowing the private key and owning the linked coins is not necessarily = the same in front of a court. At least in german law there is a difference between =91Eigentum' means = ownership and =91Besitz=92 means ability to deal with it. Being able to deal with an asset does not make you the owner. Tamas Blummer On Jan 20, 2015, at 6:23 PM, Matt Whitlock = wrote: >=20 > If you have the private keys for your users' bitcoins, then you are = every bit as much the owner of those bitcoins as your users are. There = is no custodial relationship, as you have both the ability and the right = to spend those bitcoins. Possession of a private key is equivalent to = ownership of the bitcoins controlled by that private key. --Apple-Mail=_9CFA6F8D-CBE9-493F-B638-8F36149E7FA4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Knowing the private key and owning the linked coins = is not necessarily the same in front of a = court.

At least in german law there is a = difference between =91Eigentum' means ownership and =91Besitz=92 means = ability to deal with it.

Being able to deal with an asset does = not make you the owner.

Tamas = Blummer

On Jan 20, 2015, at 6:23 PM, Matt = Whitlock <bip@mattwhitlock.name> = wrote:

If you have the private keys = for your users' bitcoins, then you are every bit as much the owner of = those bitcoins as your users are. There is no custodial relationship, as = you have both the ability and the right to spend those bitcoins. = Possession of a private key is equivalent to ownership of the bitcoins = controlled by that private = key.

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