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([2601:600:a080:16bb:a48b:b60d:c18b:69c2]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p68sm22836150pfp.30.2018.01.27.15.48.09 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 27 Jan 2018 15:48:09 -0800 (PST) To: Gregory Maxwell , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion , Nathan Parker References: From: Eric Voskuil Message-ID: <65742e8e-ee27-40b9-f8ad-37f22916002d@voskuil.org> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2018 15:48:10 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="fiqWjqOvRd381ocrCc3u6cqi6DEzeZt0W" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 28 Jan 2018 00:11:23 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proposal: rewarding fees to next block miner X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2018 23:48:12 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --fiqWjqOvRd381ocrCc3u6cqi6DEzeZt0W Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="rsndbNS3Bhsv5UUjZbwcYWxbnMmM0TXr9"; protected-headers="v1" From: Eric Voskuil To: Gregory Maxwell , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion , Nathan Parker Message-ID: <65742e8e-ee27-40b9-f8ad-37f22916002d@voskuil.org> Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proposal: rewarding fees to next block miner References: In-Reply-To: --rsndbNS3Bhsv5UUjZbwcYWxbnMmM0TXr9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The OP premise is flawed: https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin/wiki/Fee-Recovery-Fallacy as is the idea that side fees are incentive incompatible: https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin/wiki/Side-Fee-Fallacy e On 01/27/2018 11:06 AM, Gregory Maxwell via bitcoin-dev wrote: > Not incentive compatible. Miners would prefer to include transactions > paying fees via alternative mechanisms (anyone can spend outputs, > direct pay to miner outputs, or completely out of band), if they even > paid attention to internal fees at all they would give a lot more > weight to direct payment fees. Users would accordingly pay much lower > fees if they used these alternatives instead of directly, so the > equlibrium state is almost everyone bypassing. Bypass fee mechenisms > have been supported by miners since 2011 too, so it isn't just > conjecture. >=20 > On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 8:45 AM, Nathan Parker via bitcoin-dev > wrote: >> Miners can fill their blocks with transactions paying very high fees a= t no >> cost because they get the fees back to themselves. They can do this fo= r >> different purposes, like trying to increase the recommended fee. Here = I >> propose a backwards-compatible solution to this problem. >> >> The solution would be to reward the fees of the current block to the m= iner >> of the next block (or X blocks after the current one). That way, if a = miner >> floods its own block with very high fee transactions, those fees are n= o >> longer given back to itself, but to the miner of future blocks which c= ould >> potentially be anyone. Flooding blocks with fake txs is now discourage= d. >> However, filling blocks with real transactions paying real fees is sti= ll >> encouraged because you could be the one to mine the block that would c= laim >> this reward. >> >> The way to implement this in a backwards-compatible fashion would be t= o >> enforce miners to set an anyone-can-spend output in the coinbase trans= action >> of the block (by adding this as a rule for verifying new blocks). The = miner >> of 100 blocks after the current one can add a secondary transaction sp= ending >> this block's anyone-can-spend coinbase transaction (due to the coinbas= e >> needing 100 blocks to mature) and thus claiming the funds. This way, t= he >> block reward of a block X is always transferred to the miner of block = X+100. >> >> Implementing this would require a soft-fork. Since that secondary >> transaction needs no signature whatsoever, the overhead caused by that= extra >> transaction is negligible. >> >> Possible Downside: When the fork is activated, the miners won=E2=80=99= t get any >> reward for mining blocks for a period of 100 blocks. They could choose= to >> power off the mining equipment for maintenance or to save power over t= hat >> period, so the hashrate could drop temporarily. However, if the hashra= te >> drops too much, blocks would take much longer to mine, and miners woul= dn=E2=80=99t >> want that either since they want to go through those 100 reward-less b= locks >> as soon as possible so they can start getting rewards from mining agai= n. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> bitcoin-dev mailing list >> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >> > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >=20 --rsndbNS3Bhsv5UUjZbwcYWxbnMmM0TXr9-- --fiqWjqOvRd381ocrCc3u6cqi6DEzeZt0W Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJabQ+6AAoJEDzYwH8LXOFO0iIH/3vXCstKi2fFG57zQtnkM+3b qmFnDthoSEZNa2d4OqjPCsBbVVJDJfcWqvxnbwOORAJ7znKBFJNF2P/IoX9mUxQp iba7CJL5E7DfYL/bsrfMetjQEi79acEFCYOwEu9X3kLbfdzcRKq68TVScEeLEKX8 MyQpQ4+F4uKRiJvNLjKozt7ovz88weU4OFtB0u5QTLhX9dNHdLsXZn/NdK+lBMA/ bp1xVdfucxjwme9AApGeut9Nt8840iVAWo10S+e7Nka5+YulCFIE2/RS91Ewyrp+ tLjEm1SJKPr88Algq6chtOe8dw4oiTtkLL1dXv0V0JcBeTqzXfw90jEsvjEyj8A= =hHzi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --fiqWjqOvRd381ocrCc3u6cqi6DEzeZt0W--