From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Z634n-0000Mt-Ij for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 20:39:49 +0000 X-ACL-Warn: Received: from resqmta-po-08v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.167]) by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1Z634m-0007Gh-BX for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 20:39:49 +0000 Received: from resomta-po-03v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.227]) by resqmta-po-08v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id iLfW1q0044ueUHc01LfiEN; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 20:39:42 +0000 Received: from crushinator.localnet ([IPv6:2601:186:c000:825e:e9f4:8901:87c7:24a0]) by resomta-po-03v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id iLfh1q00E4eLRLv01LfhMu; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 20:39:42 +0000 From: Matt Whitlock To: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 16:39:41 -0400 Message-ID: <6716121.uS5ifrNBZv@crushinator> User-Agent: KMail/4.14.9 (Linux/3.18.12-gentoo; KDE/4.14.9; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: References: <20150619103959.GA32315@savin.petertodd.org> <20150619154054.GA13498@savin.petertodd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [96.114.154.167 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1Z634m-0007Gh-BX Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] F2Pool has enabled full replace-by-fee X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 20:39:49 -0000 On Friday, 19 June 2015, at 9:18 am, Adrian Macneil wrote: > If full-RBF sees any significant adoption by miners, then it will actively > harm bitcoin adoption by reducing or removing the ability for online or POS > merchants to accept bitcoin payments at all. Retail POS merchants probably should not be accepting vanilla Bitcoin payments, as Bitcoin alone does not (and cannot) guarantee the irreversibility of a transaction until it has been buried several blocks deep in the chain. Retail merchants should be requiring a co-signature from a mutually trusted co-signer that vows never to sign a double-spend. The reason we don't yet see such technology permeating the ecosystem is because, to date, zero-conf transactions have been irreversible "enough," but this has only been a happy accident; it was never promised, and it should not be relied upon.