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[2620:6e:a000:1::99]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id y22-20020a9d6356000000b006eb82222862si733117otk.4.2024.04.21.16.01.41 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 21 Apr 2024 16:01:42 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lf-lists@mattcorallo.com designates 2620:6e:a000:1::99 as permitted sender) client-ip=2620:6e:a000:1::99; X-DKIM-Note: Keys used to sign are likely public at X-DKIM-Note: https://as397444.net/dkim/mattcorallo.com and X-DKIM-Note: https://as397444.net/dkim/clients.mail.as397444.net X-DKIM-Note: For more info, see https://as397444.net/dkim/ Received: by mail.as397444.net with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) (Exim) (envelope-from ) id 1rygBj-002wnp-27; Sun, 21 Apr 2024 23:01:35 +0000 Message-ID: <6899161f-db77-4ba3-89e8-47b18012f9be@mattcorallo.com> Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2024 19:01:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors To: Ava Chow , bitcoindev@googlegroups.com References: <2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com> <52a0d792-d99f-4360-ba34-0b12de183fef@murch.one> <84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com> <9baa15e4-062d-478f-8c87-8ff19ab79989@murch.one> <4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com> <6806b22d-043d-4201-841a-95e17cd8d542@mattcorallo.com> <77554baa9330c57361c65c1fc85557f1@dtrt.org> <7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben@googlegroups.com> <070755a0-10e9-4903-9524-dd8ef98c1c8b@achow101.com> Content-Language: en-US From: Matt Corallo In-Reply-To: <070755a0-10e9-4903-9524-dd8ef98c1c8b@achow101.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Original-Sender: lf-lists@mattcorallo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@mattcorallo.com header.s=1713739262 header.b=r5Y1iV8S; dkim=pass header.i=@clients.mail.as397444.net header.s=1713739264 header.b=ENp0Oi81; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lf-lists@mattcorallo.com designates 2620:6e:a000:1::99 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=lf-lists@mattcorallo.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=REJECT dis=NONE) header.from=mattcorallo.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) I'm a bit confused, several people have suggested that Roasbeef clearly doe= sn't have the time=20 commitment to be added as a BIP editor, and I previously noted that of the = list of people, only=20 Kanzure and Murch have been around for a long period of time and demonstrat= ed depth in the kind of=20 Bitcoin technical nomenclature and copy-editing required for this role, lar= gely via Kanzure's long=20 history of Bitcoin technical transcriptions and Murch's work on stack excha= nge and the nomenclature=20 BIP at https://github.com/murchandamus/bips/pull/1/files. For the avoidance of doubt, this is an objection to the rest of the list. Matt On 4/20/24 3:14 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List wrote: > Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform > everyone of what will happen on Monday. >=20 > There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there > been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last email. > As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack, > Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday > April 22nd. >=20 > Ava >=20 > On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List > wrote: >> While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add at >> once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of the >> nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual >> objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit objections >> to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't share >> their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be endorsed >> by many others. >> >> Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the current >> counts are: >> * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against >> * Murch - 13 for >> * Jonatack - 13 for >> * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against >> * Roasbeef - 9 for >> * Michael Folkson - none >> >> However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest and >> require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this process >> be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by >> achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any of >> these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5 who >> have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this list >> seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone really >> wants to deal with. >> >> I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have posted >> on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have reached out >> to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure and >> Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public >> confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not >> received a response from Roasbeef. >> >> Ava >> >> On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote: >>> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so >>> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group >>> majority. >>> >>> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here. Having >>> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in which peopl= e >>> just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not end up >>> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does not >>> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up >>> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far from >>> their expectations. >>> >>> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, and >>> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and we nee= d >>> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and slacking of= f). >>> >>> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from. >>> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on their track >>> record in the space >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30=E2=80=AFPM nvk >> > wrote: >>> >>> +1 for >>> Kanzure >>> RubenSomsen >>> Seccour >>> Jon Atack >>> Roasbeef >>> >>> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so >>> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group >>> majority. >>> >>> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas. >>> >>> I'd like to return to that. >>> >>> - NVK (temp gmail account) >>> >>> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54=E2=80=AFPM UTC-4 David A. Har= ding wrote: >>> >>> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: >>> > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I >>> like Bob!". >>> >>> Using only comments from the mailing list, the following appe= ars >>> to be >>> the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks = denote >>> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role= . >>> >>> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris >>> Stewart[3], >>> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon >>> Black[11], >>> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John >>> Carvalho[16] >>> >>> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], >>> Michael >>> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15]= , John >>> Carvalho[16] >>> >>> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3]= , >>> /dev/fd0[5][7], >>> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John >>> Carvalho[16] >>> >>> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris >>> Stewart[3], John >>> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine >>> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] >>> >>> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], K= eagan >>> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine >>> Riard[12], >>> Ava Chow[14] >>> >>> - Michael Folkson* >>> >>> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for >>> "non-dev >>> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", and >>> Antoine >>> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM". >>> >>> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the ab= ove >>> candidates had been especially active there, which is listed >>> below as: >>> total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed)= . >>> >>> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure >>> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen >>> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack >>> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef >>> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus >>> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson >>> >>> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set t= o >>> have a >>> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there ar= e >>> far-along >>> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent >>> Payments). I >>> don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it >>> demonstrates >>> familiarity with the process. >>> >>> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above= with >>> multiple recommendations from other community participants ar= e >>> fully >>> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed >>> justification >>> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only = a >>> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as C= orallo >>> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through= a >>> draft >>> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of >>> all 300 >>> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has >>> reviewed >>> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases >>> significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of= the >>> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we'= d >>> ask him >>> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's alre= ady >>> doing, >>> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role. >>> >>> -Dave >>> >>> [1] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow1= 01.com/ >>> [2] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr= .org/ >>> [3] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@google= groups.com/ >>> [4] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpur= gatory.com/ >>> [5] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@google= groups.com/ >>> [6] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@google= groups.com/ >>> [7] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@google= groups.com/ >>> [8] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX= =3DwruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ >>> [9] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.or= g/ >>> >>> [10] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattco= rallo.com/ >>> [11] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@consol= e/ >>> >>> [12] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...= @mail.gmail.com/ >>> [13] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.= one/ >>> [14] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow1= 01.com/ >>> [15] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5W= of_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4= xojo=3D@protonmail.com/ >>> [16] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@google= groups.com/ >>> [17] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU= =3D=3DYJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Googl= e >>> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>> send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >>> . >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a= 441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com . >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sergi. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >>> . >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiX= BcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg= id/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1%40achow101.com. >=20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= bitcoindev/6899161f-db77-4ba3-89e8-47b18012f9be%40mattcorallo.com.