public inbox for bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Matt Whitlock <bip@mattwhitlock.name>
To: Joel Joonatan Kaartinen <joel.kaartinen@gmail.com>
Cc: Bitcoin Development <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposed alternatives to the 20MB step function
Date: Fri, 08 May 2015 09:24:49 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <6997846.HngUFLFEeM@crushinator> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <47719888.P2f3pq4RTK@crushinator>

On Friday, 8 May 2015, at 8:48 am, Matt Whitlock wrote:
> On Friday, 8 May 2015, at 3:32 pm, Joel Joonatan Kaartinen wrote:
> > It seems you missed my suggestion about basing the maximum block size on
> > the bitcoin days destroyed in transactions that are included in the block.
> > I think it has potential for both scaling as well as keeping up a constant
> > fee pressure. If tuned properly, it should both stop spamming and increase
> > block size maximum when there are a lot of real transactions waiting for
> > inclusion.
> 
> My problem with it is that "bitcoin days destroyed" is not a measure of demand for space in the block chain. In the distant future, when Bitcoin is the predominant global currency, bitcoins will have such high velocity that the number of bitcoin days destroyed in each block will be much lower than at present. Does this mean that the block size limit should be lower in the future than it is now? Clearly this would be incorrect.

I feel a need to point out something that may be obvious to some but not to others: the cumulative total number of "bitcoin days destroyed" since the genesis block is bounded by the cumulative total number of "bitcoin days created" since the genesis block. (You can't destroy something that hasn't yet been created.) After all coins have been mined, bitcoin days will be created at a rate of 21M bitcoin days per day. In the long run, bitcoin days will be destroyed at a rate not exceeding 21M bitcoin days per day. This is so because bitcoin days cannot be destroyed at a rate faster than they are created for an indefinitely long time. This upper limit on the rate of bitcoin days destruction is irrespective of bitcoin adoption and the growth in demand for space in the block chain.

Even ignoring the fact that "bitcoin days destroyed" is bounded whereas demand for block-chain space is not, we'd still have to answer the question of whether the rate of bitcoin days destroyed is a good estimator of demand for block-chain space. Why would it be? Suppose some day Satoshi moves his 1M coins to a new address. Would this huge destruction of bitcoin days imply anything about future demand for space in the block chain? No.



  reply	other threads:[~2015-05-08 13:24 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 69+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-05-08  7:20 [Bitcoin-development] Proposed alternatives to the 20MB step function Matt Whitlock
2015-05-08 10:15 ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-08 10:30 ` Clément Elbaz
2015-05-08 12:32   ` Joel Joonatan Kaartinen
2015-05-08 12:48     ` Matt Whitlock
2015-05-08 13:24       ` Matt Whitlock [this message]
2015-05-08 12:48     ` Gavin Andresen
2015-05-08 16:51     ` Peter Todd
2015-05-08 22:36       ` Joel Joonatan Kaartinen
2015-05-09 18:30         ` Peter Todd
2015-05-08 15:57 ` Alex Mizrahi
2015-05-08 16:55 ` Bryan Bishop
2015-05-08 20:33 ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-05-08 22:43   ` Aaron Voisine
2015-05-08 22:45     ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-05-08 23:15       ` Aaron Voisine
2015-05-08 23:58         ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-05-09  3:36   ` Gregory Maxwell
2015-05-09 11:58     ` Gavin Andresen
2015-05-09 13:49       ` Tier Nolan
2015-05-10 17:36     ` Owen Gunden
2015-05-10 18:10       ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-05-10 21:21     ` Gavin Andresen
2015-05-10 21:33       ` Gregory Maxwell
2015-05-10 21:56       ` Rob Golding
2015-05-13 10:43     ` Tier Nolan
2015-05-16  0:22       ` Rusty Russell
2015-05-16 11:09         ` Tier Nolan
2015-05-18  1:42           ` Rusty Russell
2015-05-19  8:59             ` Tier Nolan
2015-05-10 21:48   ` Thomas Voegtlin
2015-05-10 22:31     ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-05-10 23:11       ` Thomas Voegtlin
2015-05-28 15:53 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-05-28 17:05   ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-28 17:19     ` Gavin Andresen
2015-05-28 17:34       ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-28 18:23         ` Gavin Andresen
2015-05-29 11:26           ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-29 11:42             ` Tier Nolan
2015-05-29 11:57               ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-29 12:39                 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-05-29 14:00                   ` insecurity
2015-05-29 14:15                     ` Braun Brelin
2015-05-29 14:09                   ` Tier Nolan
2015-05-29 14:20                     ` Gavin Andresen
2015-05-29 14:22                       ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-29 14:21                     ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-29 14:22                     ` Tier Nolan
2015-05-29 16:39                       ` [Bitcoin-development] Proposed alternatives to the 20MB stepfunction Raystonn .
2015-05-29 18:28                         ` Tier Nolan
2015-05-29 17:53                   ` [Bitcoin-development] Proposed alternatives to the 20MB step function Admin Istrator
2015-05-30  9:03                     ` Aaron Voisine
2015-06-01 11:30                       ` Ricardo Filipe
2015-06-01 11:46                         ` Marcel Jamin
2015-05-29 18:47                   ` Bryan Cheng
2015-05-30  1:36                     ` Cameron Garnham
2015-05-28 17:39       ` [Bitcoin-development] Proposed alternatives to the 20MB stepfunction Raystonn .
2015-05-28 17:59         ` Pieter Wuille
2015-05-28 18:21           ` Gavin Andresen
2015-05-28 17:50       ` [Bitcoin-development] Proposed alternatives to the 20MB step function Peter Todd
2015-05-28 17:14   ` Thomas Voegtlin
2015-05-28 17:34   ` Pieter Wuille
2015-05-29 17:45   ` Aaron Voisine
2015-05-08 14:57 Steven Pine
2015-05-09  0:13 Raystonn
     [not found] <CAAjy6kDdB8uODpPcmS8h4eap8fke7Y2y773NHJZja8tB5mPk4Q@mail.gmail.com>
2015-05-28 16:30 ` Steven Pine
     [not found]   ` <CABsx9T03aNRC5DRbR06nNtsiBdJAcQsGAHvbCOe3pnuRpdvq5w@mail.gmail.com>
2015-05-28 18:25     ` Steven Pine
2015-05-28 18:31       ` Gavin Andresen

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=6997846.HngUFLFEeM@crushinator \
    --to=bip@mattwhitlock.name \
    --cc=bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net \
    --cc=joel.kaartinen@gmail.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox