From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1YJUFg-0007nI-8c for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 05 Feb 2015 21:46:20 +0000 X-ACL-Warn: Received: from mail-pd0-f181.google.com ([209.85.192.181]) by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1YJUFf-0005np-7j for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 05 Feb 2015 21:46:20 +0000 Received: by pdbnh10 with SMTP id nh10so7640308pdb.12 for ; Thu, 05 Feb 2015 13:46:13 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:references:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:cc:from:subject:date:to; bh=LoDLP9ClVcO1tU6xGDfS5tga8CBNu/ixAuYgkMs2QLU=; b=WIZxMfgvTTsBJFmWfNGGNVU47wFOLNE7dL9RuDO0PfR40yZ7athEdosZI6Rey65z0H Bo2cBz565Ad5rH/JYBJl3JRHJcpoZFRbDOqB2D88WvyDftFOGcmbyk+4N9Z7UEOYXjYq WVj4xjxlLuSHG3MgywSBrV0HXbsZd/ujejieDZBsspkzVRMDgDqg0NEhFQw3nmvVXg4j 7IKW/EtjJqayZVzrJzt3OOOiJll74ovT42RrA0+jyURS0FVVTOUJrPJJWgel/N8KM1fE gIw2zJQjtFZ8+4OQWMxisUbdljKIg8uUlE/SH5voTqWAvsUPrpC/ywCwrlEV6nNkFG7j g/NA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmj8Vb8wxK7N332U0lnfHfwxio5o0o0F9gQnXQKWKWyk4skSGdms/gzXBQneGn/Lfnra2N+ X-Received: by 10.68.69.110 with SMTP id d14mr378646pbu.77.1423172773466; Thu, 05 Feb 2015 13:46:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.195.38.15] ([166.170.37.215]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id fg6sm6006887pdb.24.2015.02.05.13.46.12 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 05 Feb 2015 13:46:12 -0800 (PST) References: <54D3D636.1030308@voskuil.org> <279489A5-1E46-48A2-8F58-1A25821D4D96@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-F4DA88C2-53D8-40A7-920E-2B468C2479F9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <6AEDF3C4-DEE0-4E31-83D0-4FD92B125452@voskuil.org> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (12B440) From: Eric Voskuil Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2015 13:46:10 -0800 To: Mike Hearn X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 MIME_QP_LONG_LINE RAW: Quoted-printable line longer than 76 chars X-Headers-End: 1YJUFf-0005np-7j Cc: Bitcoin Dev , Paul Puey Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal for P2P Wireless (Bluetooth LE) transfer of Payment URI X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2015 21:46:20 -0000 --Apple-Mail-F4DA88C2-53D8-40A7-920E-2B468C2479F9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BLE has an advertised range of over 100m.=20 http://www.bluetooth.com/Pages/low-energy-tech-info.aspx In the case of mass surveillance that range could most likely be extended dr= amatically by the reviewer. I've seen WiFi ranges of over a mile with a str= ong (not FCC approved) receiver. WiFi hotspots don't have strong identity or a guaranteed position, so they c= an't be trusted for location. e On Feb 5, 2015, at 1:36 PM, Mike Hearn wrote: >> This sounds horrible. You could basically monitor anyone with a wallet in= a highly populated area and track them super easily by doing facial recogni= tion. >=20 > We're talking about BLE, still? The radio tech that runs in the so called "= junk bands" because propagation is so poor? >=20 > My watch loses its connection to my phone if I just put it down and walk a= round my apartment. I'm all for reasonable paranoia, but Bluetooth isn't goi= ng to be enabling mass surveillance any time soon. It barely goes through ai= r, let alone walls. >=20 > Anyway, whatever. I'm just bouncing around ideas for faster user interface= s. You could always switch it off or set it to be triggered by the presence o= f particular wifi hotspots, if you don't mind an initial bit of setup. >=20 > Back on topic - the debate is interesting, but I think to get this to the s= tage of being a BIP we'd need at least another wallet to implement it? Then I= guess a BIP would be useful regardless of the design issues. The prefix mat= ching still feels flaky to me but it's hard to know if you could really swip= e payments out of the air in practice, without actually trying it. >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail-F4DA88C2-53D8-40A7-920E-2B468C2479F9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
BLE has an advertised range of over 10= 0m. 

WiFi hotspots do= n't have strong identity or a guaranteed position, so they can't be trusted f= or location.

e

On Feb 5, 2015, at 1:36 PM, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net> wrote:

=
<= div>This sounds horrible. You could basically monitor anyone with a wallet i= n a highly populated area and track them super easily by doing facial recogn= ition.

We're talking about BLE, s= till? The radio tech that runs in the so called "junk bands" because propaga= tion is so poor?

My watch loses its connection to m= y phone if I just put it down and walk around my apartment. I'm all for reas= onable paranoia, but Bluetooth isn't going to be enabling mass surveillance a= ny time soon. It barely goes through air, let alone walls.

Anyway, whatever. I'm just bouncing around ideas for faster user int= erfaces. You could always switch it off or set it to be triggered by the pre= sence of particular wifi hotspots, if you don't mind an initial bit of setup= .

Back on topic - the debate is interesting, but I t= hink to get this to the stage of being a BIP we'd need at least another wall= et to implement it? Then I guess a BIP would be useful regardless of the des= ign issues. The prefix matching still feels flaky to me but it's hard to kno= w if you could really swipe payments out of the air in practice, without act= ually trying it.


= --Apple-Mail-F4DA88C2-53D8-40A7-920E-2B468C2479F9--