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charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 10 May 2022 19:20:38 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP proposal: Timelocked address fidelity bond for BIP39 seeds X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/> List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 19:03:30 -0000 ------- Original Message ------- On Tuesday, May 10th, 2022 at 17:54, ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@= lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > Good morning waxwing, <snip> > > Ah, yes, now I remember. > I discussed this with Tamas as well in the past and that is why we conclu= ded that in defiads, each UTXO can host at most one advertisement at any on= e time. > In the case of defiads there would be a sequence counter where a higher-s= equenced advertisement would replace lower-sequenced advertisement, so you = could update, but at any one time, for a defiads node, only one advertiseme= nt per UTXO could be used. > This assumed that there would be a defiads network with good gossip propa= gation so our thinking at the time was that a higher-sequenced advertisemen= t would quickly replace lower-sequenced ones on the network. > But it is simpler if such replacement would not be needed, and you could = then commit to the advertisement directly on the UTXO via a tweak. > > Each advertisement would also have a specific application ID that it appl= ied to, and applications on top of defiads would ask the local defiads node= to give it the ads that match a specific application ID, so a UTXO could o= nly be used for one application at a time. > This would be equivalent to domain separation tags that waxwing mentions. > > Regards, > ZmnSCPxj > I suppose ultimately this brings up the question of the scope of this BIP. = The abstract points out that the BIP contains both a definition of address = derivation, but also how to sign fidelity bond certificates. My feeling is that the latter might be better not included? I note that the= 'Motivation' section gives motivation for standardisation of derivation (t= his includes things like time schedule), but not the second area - certific= ate signing. I think the second area is much more tricky, but much more to = the point is, isn't it the case that that second area, can be interpreted w= ithout consensus between wallet developers? So say you were a hardware wall= et provider, or a "node in a box" provider - your customers want you to pro= vide the ability move funds around, including e.g. moving funds out of an o= ld Joinmarket wallet (in which say there is a now expired timelock address = utxo) by just entering its BIP39 seed. If this BIP addresses that, it shoul= d be enough. I don't doubt that there's gains to be had from a broader community discuss= ing and agreeing the details of how to create a fidelity bond certificate, = but it's a separate, and more difficult, task. Cheers, waxwing/AdamISZ