From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1WYBaO-00016Q-9Y for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 10 Apr 2014 09:47:56 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of petertodd.org designates 62.13.148.95 as permitted sender) client-ip=62.13.148.95; envelope-from=pete@petertodd.org; helo=outmail148095.authsmtp.com; Received: from outmail148095.authsmtp.com ([62.13.148.95]) by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) id 1WYBaN-0003al-3d for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 10 Apr 2014 09:47:56 +0000 Received: from mail-c235.authsmtp.com (mail-c235.authsmtp.com [62.13.128.235]) by punt18.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id s3A9lmav027660; Thu, 10 Apr 2014 10:47:48 +0100 (BST) Received: from [25.121.248.92] ([24.114.49.14]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id s3A9li7d054654 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 10 Apr 2014 10:47:45 +0100 (BST) User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: References: <53456B99.9010207@monetize.io> <00b77560-d7ed-4ed4-a4e5-eb1f00467a06@email.android.com> <0509477C-89F9-47C7-8820-29ACAD4A4A8E@bitsofproof.com> <534592E2.7040800@gmail.com> <5345986C.3040901@gmail.com> <77889B25-03D6-4401-A5FE-432976951F55@bitsofproof.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 From: Peter Todd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2014 05:47:41 -0400 To: Mike Hearn , Tamas Blummer Message-ID: <6aee3847-d03a-44b6-9277-679e6fd5e54b@email.android.com> X-Server-Quench: 2b54589d-c095-11e3-b802-002590a15da7 X-AuthReport-Spam: If SPAM / abuse - report it at: http://www.authsmtp.com/abuse X-AuthRoute: OCd2Yg0TA1ZNQRgX IjsJECJaVQIpKltL GxAVKBZePFsRUQkR aQdMdwIUGUUGAgsB AmIbWlReVFp7XWU7 aQ5PbARZfE5HQQRu T0xPR01TWkZrcBVd XxlKUhx2cQBCNn9z YUJqEHIJWUB/fU8p Xx1UHGgbZGY1a31N WEBaagNUcgZDfk5E bwQuUz1vNG8XDQg5 AwQ0PjZ0MThBJSBS WgQAK04nCWwKAjU7 RhYOWDQpWEcMTCY8 NRs7LFJUGUEdPw08 NkFpYmomUgAbDglT A1ol X-Authentic-SMTP: 61633532353630.1023:706 X-AuthFastPath: 0 (Was 255) X-AuthSMTP-Origin: 24.114.49.14/465 X-AuthVirus-Status: No virus detected - but ensure you scan with your own anti-virus system. X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record X-Headers-End: 1WYBaN-0003al-3d Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2014 09:47:56 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On 10 April 2014 05:17:28 GMT-04:00, Mike Hearn wrote: >> >> I find it is odd that we who hold the key to instant machine to >machine >> micro payments do not use it to incentivise committing resources to >the >> network. >> > >It's not a new idea, obviously, but there are some practical >consequences: You're both missing a more important issue: a core security assumption of bitcoin is that information is so easy to spread that censorship of it becomes impractical. If we're at the point where nodes are charging for their data we've failed that assumption. More concretely, if my business is charging for block chain data and I can make a profit doing so via micro payments I have perverse incentives to drive away my competitors. If I give a peer a whole block they can sell access to that information in turn. Why would I make it easy for them if I don't have too? Anyway, much of this discussion seems to stem from the misconception that contributing back to the network is a binary all or nothing thing - it's not. Over a year ago I myself was lamenting how I and the other "bitcoin-wizards" working on scalability had quickly solved every scaling problem *but* how to make it possible to scale up and keep mining decentralised. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: APG v1.1.1 iQFQBAEBCgA6BQJTRmi9MxxQZXRlciBUb2RkIChsb3cgc2VjdXJpdHkga2V5KSA8 cGV0ZUBwZXRlcnRvZGQub3JnPgAKCRAZnIM7qOfwhT/BB/98DudTV85hmruk0WRS xVt7gGK6DJ2Isc7iJE09i9wSQc/PbHu7rZ2MYPreOdVzRmlHYhOV2ShnZaZJ7A9g qB8pwy1wVrZgbrFeXXOLegNxGF2Xzc8OtL1E0bkNtTUUkuPIvT3UV4xn/Z+UZToR XImXpfakfJvyRH80cbMNu4xG/t7Ym4K63nEpCCdsEKNm5a1vHTNRTNfGYMC1wrSV XI3boZk7BQjqFDZADnonUU9zQ1WOmpdaVBYm+Xtgc+HXl3QODLcwGCY9hIRvaxek L+IYX9yTVbgngDGy70BYG4ekWxvMtNzRU+9HG5DgA1/Er9r1KIaf/98xiFR7RVB4 Yfia =34aD -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----