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[69.59.18.99]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 98e67ed59e1d1-3134b0041d2si253779a91.1.2025.06.09.06.51.59 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 09 Jun 2025 06:51:59 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lf-lists@mattcorallo.com designates 69.59.18.99 as permitted sender) client-ip=69.59.18.99; X-DKIM-Note: Keys used to sign are likely public at X-DKIM-Note: https://as397444.net/dkim/mattcorallo.com and X-DKIM-Note: https://as397444.net/dkim/clients.mail.as397444.net X-DKIM-Note: For more info, see https://as397444.net/dkim/ Received: by mail.as397444.net with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) (Exim) (envelope-from ) id 1uOcur-000duU-0k; Mon, 09 Jun 2025 13:51:57 +0000 Message-ID: <6f78b702-4bd0-4aa4-ac51-b881d8df9f01@mattcorallo.com> Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2025 09:51:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] CTV + CSFS: a letter To: James O'Beirne , Bitcoin Development Mailing List References: Content-Language: en-US From: Matt Corallo In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Original-Sender: lf-lists@mattcorallo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@mattcorallo.com header.s=1749475262 header.b=pFEN6vNf; dkim=pass header.i=@clients.mail.as397444.net header.s=1749475265 header.b="n/WJiedE"; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lf-lists@mattcorallo.com designates 69.59.18.99 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=lf-lists@mattcorallo.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=REJECT dis=NONE) header.from=mattcorallo.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) First of all, lol, we're really doing sign-on letters again? Great way to d= iscourage people from=20 doing things. That said, I have yet to see a reasoned explanation of why we should prefer= CTV over TXHASH. Any=20 time I bring it up I get a few handwave arguments about "that would require= bikeshedding", but I=20 don't see why that is an argument. Preferring to do something worse because= something better would=20 require someone reasonable pick some reasonable encoding is not a good way = to do engineering. Maybe one of the letter-signers wants to provide an explanation for their v= iew? Matt On 6/9/25 7:40 AM, James O'Beirne wrote: > Good morning, >=20 > A letter has been published advocating for the final review and > activation of OP_CHECKTEMPLATEVERIFY (BIP-119) and OP_CHECKSIGFROMSTACK > (BIP-348). >=20 > The full text of the letter can be found at https://ctv-csfs.com. It is > reproduced below. >=20 > --- >=20 > To the technical bitcoin community, >=20 > We believe that the best next step for bitcoin would be to activate > OP_CHECKTEMPLATEVERIFY (CTV, BIP-119) and OP_CHECKSIGFROMSTACK (CSFS, > BIP-348). These opcodes enable functionality for a broad set of uses > that will allow bitcoin to preserve and expand its role as a scarce, > censorship-resistant store of value. >=20 > While there are a few promising proposals to improve bitcoin at the > consensus layer which may someday be deployed, we believe that CTV and > CSFS are uniquely well reviewed, simple, and have been proven to be both > safe and widely demanded. >=20 > CTV was first formalized in BIP-119 over 5 years ago. Despite many > attempts at refinement or replacement, it has remained the most widely > preferred method for enforcing pregenerated transaction sequences using > consensus. It unlocks valuable functionality for scaling solutions, > vaults, congestion control, non-custodial mining, discreet log > contracts, and more. >=20 > CSFS is a primitive opcode that has been deployed to Blockstream=E2=80=99= s > Elements for at least 8 years. It represents no significant > computational burden over bitcoin=E2=80=99s most often used opcode, OP_CH= ECKSIG. > It can be combined with CTV to implement ln-symmetry, a longstanding > improvement to Lightning. It also unlocks a variety of other use cases. >=20 > We respectfully ask Bitcoin Core contributors to prioritize the review > and integration of CTV (PR #31989 or similar) and CSFS (PR #32247 or > similar) within the next six months. We believe this timeline allows for > rigorous final review and activation planning. >=20 > This request isn't meant to suggest that these contributors dictate the > consensus process, but rather it is an acknowledgement that before these > opcodes can be activated, they must be implemented in the most widely > used bitcoin client. >=20 > As application and protocol developers, we are convinced of the > significant benefits that these changes would bring to end users of > bitcoin =E2=80=93 even if only considering their use for layer 1 security= and > layer 2 scaling solutions. We are optimistic that given the limited size > and scope of these changes in both concept and implementation, they > represent a realistic next step in the continuing and important work of > preserving bitcoin's unique promise. >=20 > Signed, >=20 > Abdel (Starkware) > Andrew Poelstra (@apoelstra) > Ben Carman (@benthecarman) > Ben Kaufman (@ben-kaufman) > Brandon Black (@reardencode) > Brian Langel (for Five Bells) > Buck Perley (@puckberley) > Calle (Cashu) > Calvin Kim (@kcalvinalvin) > Chun Wang (f2pool) > Christian Decker (@cdecker) > Coinjoined Chris (Bitsurance.eu) > Evan Kaloudis (for Zeus) > fiatjaf (@fiatjaf) > Floppy (@1440000bytes) > Gary Krause (@average-gary) > Harsha Goli (@arshbot) > Hunter Beast (@cryptoquick) > Jad Mubaslat (@champbronc2) > James O=E2=80=99Beirne (@jamesob) > Jameson Lopp (@jlopp) > Johan Halseth (@halseth) > Luke Childs (@lukechilds) > Matt Black (for Atomic Finance) > Michael Tidwell (@miketwenty1) > Nick Hansen (for Luxor Mining) > Nitesh (@nitesh_btc) > nvk (@nvk) > Owen Kemeys (for Foundation) > Paul Sztorc (@psztorc) > Portland.HODL (for MARA Pool) > Rijndael (@rot13maxi) > Rob Hamilton (@rob1ham) > Robin Linus (@RobinLinus) > Sanket Kanjalkar (@sanket1729) > Sean Ryan (Anchorage) > Seth for Privacy (for Cake Wallet) > Simanta Gautam (Alpen Labs) > Steven Roose (@stevenroose) > stutxo (@stutxo) > Talip (@otaliptus) > mononaut (@mononautical) > vnprc (@vnprc) >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "Bitcoin Development=20 > Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an= email to=20 > bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com . > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoinde= v/a86c2737-=20 > db79-4f54-9c1d-51beeb765163n%40googlegroups.com a86c2737-db79-4f54-9c1d-51beeb765163n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=3Dema= il&utm_source=3Dfooter>. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= 6f78b702-4bd0-4aa4-ac51-b881d8df9f01%40mattcorallo.com.