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To: Claus Ehrenberg <aubergemediale@gmail.com>, Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
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From: Aymeric Vitte <aymeric@peersm.com>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Debate: 64 bytes in OP_RETURN VS taproot OP_FALSE
OP_IF OP_PUSH
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Hi Claus,
Thanks but I am not sure to understand the solution, how the transaction
will look like and will it be standard ?
Regards
Aymeric
Le 16/02/2023 à 20:59, Claus Ehrenberg a écrit :
> I propose to require all data to be in the op_return output PLUS add a
> required op_return_hash field, which is checked by consensus. So that
> node can re-validate the chain without having to store/download/look
> at the contents of op_return data. The benefit of that little
> redundancy is that "content-sensitive" communities can ignore the date
> they don't like.
>
> Cheers
> Claus
>
> On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 7:30 PM Aymeric Vitte via bitcoin-dev
> <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>> wrote:
>
> It's super unclear how long it could take for such a change to be
> adopted
>
> Then the answer is simple, see:
> https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7#workaround-to-the-80b-op_return-limitation
>
> Outstandingly, very, mega, bad, but working, bringing bitcoin back
> 10 years ago
>
> But why not? If bitcoin folks don't get that we need a 1tx storage
> solution for the future, then let's bring back bitcoin into the
> past and destroy coins
>
> Le 12/02/2023 à 17:23, Aymeric Vitte a écrit :
>>
>> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/27043#issuecomment-1427069403
>>
>> "What is the process to have someone do the PR for this? Or I do
>> it and most likely it will be a very shxtty one since I am not a
>> C/C++ expert, then wasting the time of everybody
>>
>> It's urgently required, I did consider OP_RETURN as a dart in the
>> past but changed my mind, it's adapted to the current evolutions,
>> not flooding bitcoin with 2 txs while only 1 is needed
>>
>> If not the best 1 tx solution is super simple: store in
>> addresses, and super bad at the end because burning bitcoins,
>> while still not expensive if you don't need to store big things"
>>
>>
>> Le 05/02/2023 à 19:12, Russell O'Connor via bitcoin-dev a écrit :
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat., Feb. 4, 2023, 21:01 Peter Todd, <pete@petertodd.org
>>> <mailto:pete@petertodd.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On February 5, 2023 1:11:35 AM GMT+01:00, Russell O'Connor
>>> via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>> <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>> wrote:
>>> >Since bytes in the witness are cheaper than bytes in the
>>> script pubkey,
>>> >there is a crossover point in data size where it will
>>> simply be cheaper to
>>> >use witness data. Where that crossover point is depends on
>>> the finer
>>> >details of the overhead of the two methods, but you could
>>> make some
>>> >reasonable assumptions. Such a calculation could form the
>>> basis of a
>>> >reasonable OP_RETURN proposal. I don't know if it would be
>>> persuasive, but
>>> >it would at least be coherent.
>>>
>>> I don't think it's worth the technical complexity trying to
>>> carefully argue a specific limit. Let users decide for
>>> themselves how they want to use OpReturn.
>>>
>>>
>>> Even better.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>> <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
>> --
>> Sophia-Antipolis, France
>> CV: https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf
>> LinkedIn: https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26
>> GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms
>> A Universal Coin Swap system based on Bitcoin: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7
>> A bitcoin NFT system: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7
>> Move your coins by yourself (browser version): https://peersm.com/wallet
>> Bitcoin transactions made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions
>> torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live
>> node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor
>> Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: http://torrent-live.peersm.com
>> Peersm : http://www.peersm.com
>
> --
> Sophia-Antipolis, France
> CV: https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf
> LinkedIn: https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26
> GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms
> A Universal Coin Swap system based on Bitcoin: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7
> A bitcoin NFT system: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7
> Move your coins by yourself (browser version): https://peersm.com/wallet
> Bitcoin transactions made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions
> torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live
> node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor
> Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: http://torrent-live.peersm.com
> Peersm : http://www.peersm.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
--
Sophia-Antipolis, France
CV: https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf
LinkedIn: https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26
GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms
A Universal Coin Swap system based on Bitcoin: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7
A bitcoin NFT system: https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7
Move your coins by yourself (browser version): https://peersm.com/wallet
Bitcoin transactions made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions
torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live
node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor
Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: http://torrent-live.peersm.com
Peersm : http://www.peersm.com
--------------8AF628C449F8802B0E7AB38E
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<p>Hi Claus,</p>
<p>Thanks but I am not sure to understand the solution, how the
transaction will look like and will it be standard ?</p>
<p>Regards</p>
<p>Aymeric</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 16/02/2023 à 20:59, Claus Ehrenberg
a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CANPykMq2xCKTVPkQGoRu9iYMdARQKZQq-b5mv3X-7FHKv1FGww@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div dir="ltr">I propose to require all data to be in the
op_return output PLUS add a required op_return_hash field, which
is checked by consensus. So that node can re-validate the chain
without having to store/download/look at the contents of
op_return data. The benefit of that little redundancy is that
"content-sensitive" communities can ignore the date they don't
like.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers</div>
<div>Claus</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 7:30
PM Aymeric Vitte via bitcoin-dev <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>It's super unclear how long it could take for such a
change to be adopted</p>
<p>Then the answer is simple, see:
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7#workaround-to-the-80b-op_return-limitation"
target="_blank">https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7#workaround-to-the-80b-op_return-limitation</a></p>
<p>Outstandingly, very, mega, bad, but working, bringing
bitcoin back 10 years ago<br>
</p>
<p>But why not? If bitcoin folks don't get that we need a
1tx storage solution for the future, then let's bring back
bitcoin into the past and destroy coins<br>
</p>
<div>Le 12/02/2023 à 17:23, Aymeric Vitte a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/27043#issuecomment-1427069403"
target="_blank">https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/27043#issuecomment-1427069403</a><br>
<br>
"What is the process to have someone do the PR for this?
Or I do it and most likely it will be a very shxtty one
since I am not a C/C++ expert, then wasting the time of
everybody<br>
<br>
It's urgently required, I did consider OP_RETURN as a
dart in the past but changed my mind, it's adapted to
the current evolutions, not flooding bitcoin with 2 txs
while only 1 is needed<br>
<br>
If not the best 1 tx solution is super simple: store in
addresses, and super bad at the end because burning
bitcoins, while still not expensive if you don't need to
store big things"<br>
</p>
<br>
<div>Le 05/02/2023 à 19:12, Russell O'Connor via
bitcoin-dev a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">
<div><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat., Feb. 4,
2023, 21:01 Peter Todd, <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:pete@petertodd.org"
target="_blank">pete@petertodd.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
<br>
On February 5, 2023 1:11:35 AM GMT+01:00,
Russell O'Connor via bitcoin-dev <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
>Since bytes in the witness are cheaper than
bytes in the script pubkey,<br>
>there is a crossover point in data size
where it will simply be cheaper to<br>
>use witness data. Where that crossover
point is depends on the finer<br>
>details of the overhead of the two methods,
but you could make some<br>
>reasonable assumptions. Such a calculation
could form the basis of a<br>
>reasonable OP_RETURN proposal. I don't know
if it would be persuasive, but<br>
>it would at least be coherent.<br>
<br>
I don't think it's worth the technical
complexity trying to carefully argue a specific
limit. Let users decide for themselves how they
want to use OpReturn.<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Even better.</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> </blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target="_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Sophia-Antipolis, France
CV: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf</a>
LinkedIn: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26" target="_blank">https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26</a>
GitHub : <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.github.com/Ayms" target="_blank">https://www.github.com/Ayms</a>
A Universal Coin Swap system based on Bitcoin: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://gist.github.com/Ayms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7" target="_blank">https://gist.github.com/Ayms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7</a>
A bitcoin NFT system: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7" target="_blank">https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7</a>
Move your coins by yourself (browser version): <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://peersm.com/wallet" target="_blank">https://peersm.com/wallet</a>
Bitcoin transactions made simple: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions" target="_blank">https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions</a>
torrent-live: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live" target="_blank">https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live</a>
node-Tor : <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor" target="_blank">https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor</a>
Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://torrent-live.peersm.com" target="_blank">http://torrent-live.peersm.com</a>
Peersm : <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.peersm.com" target="_blank">http://www.peersm.com</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Sophia-Antipolis, France
CV: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf</a>
LinkedIn: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26" target="_blank">https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26</a>
GitHub : <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.github.com/Ayms" target="_blank">https://www.github.com/Ayms</a>
A Universal Coin Swap system based on Bitcoin: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://gist.github.com/Ayms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7" target="_blank">https://gist.github.com/Ayms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7</a>
A bitcoin NFT system: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7" target="_blank">https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7</a>
Move your coins by yourself (browser version): <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://peersm.com/wallet" target="_blank">https://peersm.com/wallet</a>
Bitcoin transactions made simple: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions" target="_blank">https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions</a>
torrent-live: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live" target="_blank">https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live</a>
node-Tor : <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor" target="_blank">https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor</a>
Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://torrent-live.peersm.com" target="_blank">http://torrent-live.peersm.com</a>
Peersm : <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.peersm.com" target="_blank">http://www.peersm.com</a></pre>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org"
target="_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Sophia-Antipolis, France
CV: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf">https://www.peersm.com/CVAV.pdf</a>
LinkedIn: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26">https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26</a>
GitHub : <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.github.com/Ayms">https://www.github.com/Ayms</a>
A Universal Coin Swap system based on Bitcoin: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://gist.github.com/Ayms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7">https://gist.github.com/Ayms/029125db2583e1cf9c3209769eb2cdd7</a>
A bitcoin NFT system: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7">https://gist.github.com/Ayms/01dbfebf219965054b4a3beed1bfeba7</a>
Move your coins by yourself (browser version): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://peersm.com/wallet">https://peersm.com/wallet</a>
Bitcoin transactions made simple: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions">https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions</a>
torrent-live: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live">https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live</a>
node-Tor : <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor">https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor</a>
Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://torrent-live.peersm.com">http://torrent-live.peersm.com</a>
Peersm : <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.peersm.com">http://www.peersm.com</a></pre>
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