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([2601:600:a080:16bb:58eb:3f80:3102:545c]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i78sm4654664ioe.45.2018.01.29.15.21.48 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 29 Jan 2018 15:21:48 -0800 (PST) To: Gregory Maxwell , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion References: <261a9388-64fe-a664-85f0-4b0e8ca9ec1e@voskuil.org> From: Eric Voskuil Message-ID: <7ecea1c8-bc60-223e-6e7b-48b390363794@voskuil.org> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 15:21:48 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="jZjTEWGJaLGzYCiVT4WtJOkS1ziXheIgR" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 23:25:14 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proposal: rewarding fees to next block miner X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 23:21:50 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --jZjTEWGJaLGzYCiVT4WtJOkS1ziXheIgR Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="pZ4vqL1peKCpSJuvUISVQE0Zj6onxe1cY"; protected-headers="v1" From: Eric Voskuil To: Gregory Maxwell , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Cc: George Balch , Lucas Clemente Vella Message-ID: <7ecea1c8-bc60-223e-6e7b-48b390363794@voskuil.org> Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proposal: rewarding fees to next block miner References: <261a9388-64fe-a664-85f0-4b0e8ca9ec1e@voskuil.org> In-Reply-To: --pZ4vqL1peKCpSJuvUISVQE0Zj6onxe1cY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 01/29/2018 01:22 PM, Gregory Maxwell wrote: > On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 4:49 AM, Eric Voskuil via bitcoin-dev > wrote: >> I'm not sure who cooked up this myth about miners gaining advantage ov= er >> those who buy block space by mining empty space, rejecting higher-fee >> transactions, and/or mining "recovery" transactions, but the idea is >> complete nonsense. >=20 > I agree. >=20 > Steel-manning it, I guess I could argue that empty blocks are slightly > more conspicuous and might invite retaliation especially given the > high levels of mining centralization creates retaliation exposure. ... > but dummy transactions are hardly less conspicuous, many nodes log now > when blocks show up containing txn that they've never seen before. > Moreover, inexplicably underfilled blocks are produced (e.g. by > bitmain's antpool) and no retaliation seems to be forthcoming. It's not clear to me what would be the reason for retaliation, given there is no more harm in a miner purchasing a block than Coinbase submitting enough transactions to fill a block. Both pay the market rate for the space. But since the former results in a loss, a financial consequence ("retaliation") is inherent. If a farmer destroys his/her own apple crop he loses money. It may be very conspicuous, but nobody would retaliate as only the farmer's own property was affected. Customers would just get their apples elsewhere. Block space created by a miner is property that belongs to the miner, it can be sold or not sold. e --pZ4vqL1peKCpSJuvUISVQE0Zj6onxe1cY-- --jZjTEWGJaLGzYCiVT4WtJOkS1ziXheIgR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJab6yNAAoJEDzYwH8LXOFO+IcH/iOaVrWCj0SG/kAaCYISMKt5 qlAJqSdOqQ+acqInbl/Sx048c3OtlNCDQh/JhPGcVbdlQkW/K6YA10TLYyi2wYDd 1fIcyF0dsLSI4E4oEBUxo2NIJhm5qT8ZEXKGQMFh/2T1TnTOQ4XZHgfiJE7yEtbe ceuu06p4hRi38N9dZupDJKWX9fNa8bUSctokfTX6BPp5NyS0XR6tnt0x/wxnaVhu h3lbfCAwOIFw3No9ApggqQfJUpweLCgfUYX5KpDqjDkLUp/uQHEAiUTzQGYMQ4Jf eIjUzAtb2F1WZ5yEXpBWVvWcgocPQa078ubrAPWUMKTsImUwOi+4Oe7t5ymq6fw= =VGbP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --jZjTEWGJaLGzYCiVT4WtJOkS1ziXheIgR--