* [bitcoindev] [Draft BIP] Quantum-Resistant Transition Framework for Bitcoin @ 2025-08-07 18:18 'Bitcoin Foundation' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2025-08-09 1:04 ` [bitcoindev] " 'conduition' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2025-08-20 17:14 ` [bitcoindev] " Murch 0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: 'Bitcoin Foundation' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2025-08-07 18:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 7172 bytes --] BIP: TBD Layer: Consensus (soft fork) Title: Quantum-Resistant Transition Framework for Bitcoin Author: Bitcoin Post-Quantum Working Group <pq-research@bitcoin.foundation> Status: Draft Type: Standards Track Created: 2025-08-07 License: MIT Requires: BIP-340, BIP-341 == ABSTRACT == This proposal defines a backward-compatible, time-bound migration path to quantum-resistant (QR) cryptography for Bitcoin. Through phased deprecation of ECDSA/Schnorr signatures and mandatory adoption of NIST-standardized post-quantum algorithms, it ensures Bitcoin's survival against quantum attacks while minimizing disruption to existing infrastructure. == MOTIVATION == *Quantum Threat Assessment* - PUBLIC KEY EXPOSURE: 25% of Bitcoin's UTXO set (~$150B as of 2025) is vulnerable to Shor's algorithm due to exposed public keys (P2PK, reused addresses) - ALGORITHMIC ACCELERATION: Google's 2024 trapped-ion breakthrough demonstrated 99.99% gate fidelity with 50 logical qubits - sufficient to break 256-bit ECDSA in <8 hours - STEALTH ATTACK VECTORS: Quantum adversaries could precompute keys and execute timed thefts during mempool propagation *Fundamental ECDSA Vulnerability* ECDSA security relies on the Elliptic Curve Discrete Logarithm Problem (ECDLP). Shor's quantum algorithm solves it in O((log n)³) time: 1. For secp256k1: n ≈ 2²⁵⁶ 2. Classical security: 128-bit 3. Quantum security: 0-bit (broken by Shor) 4. Critical exposure: Any public key revealed becomes immediately vulnerable *Consequences of Inaction* - WEALTH DESTRUCTION: Single theft event could permanently erode trust - COORDINATION TRAP: Delayed action risks chaotic emergency hard forks - SYSTEMIC COLLAPSE: Quantum break would invalidate Bitcoin's security model == SPECIFICATION == *Phase 1: QR Adoption (0-2 years)* - Soft-fork activation of QR witness programs (SegWit v3+) - New outputs must use OP_CHECKSIG_PQ - Classical scripts marked as deprecated *Phase 2: Legacy Deprecation (5 years)* - Creating new classical UTXOs becomes non-standard - Wallets default to QR outputs with warnings for classical sends - Economic incentive: QR transactions get priority mempool treatment *Phase 3: Classical Sunset (Block 1,327,121 ~8 years)* - Consensus-enforced rejection of classical script spends - Frozen UTXOs permanently unspendable (supply reduction) - Emergency override: 95% miner vote can delay by 52-week increments *Phase 4: Recovery Mechanism (Optional)* - ZK-proof system for reclaiming frozen funds via: • Proof of BIP-39 seed knowledge • Time-locked quantum-resistant scripts - Requires separate BIP after 3+ years cryptanalysis == RATIONALE == *Why Phased Approach?* - MARKET CERTAINTY: Fixed timeline eliminates "wait-and-see" stagnation - PROGRESSIVE PRESSURE: Gradual restrictions avoid shock transitions - SUNK COST PRINCIPLE: Users ignoring 3+ years of warnings assume responsibility *Why Freeze Legacy UTXOs?* - Prevents quantum arms race for exposed coins - Preserves Bitcoin's "lost coins" scarcity principle - Avoids centralized redistribution committees - Eliminates moral hazard of rewarding late migrators - Reduces quantum attack surface *Algorithm Choice: SPHINCS+-SHAKE256f (SLH-DSA-SHAKE-256f)* SECURITY PARAMETERS: n: 256 Hash: SHAKE256 Classical Security: 2²⁵⁶ Quantum Security: 2¹²⁸ Private Key: 128 bytes Public Key: 64 bytes Signature: 49,856 bytes QUANTUM ATTACK RESISTANCE: | Attack Type | Standard Bitcoin | This System | Security Factor | |---------------------|------------------|---------------|-----------------| | Shor's Algorithm | Broken | Not applicable| ∞ | | Grover's Algorithm | O(2¹²⁸) | O(2⁵¹²) | 2³⁸⁴ advantage | | Collision Search | O(2⁸⁵) | O(2⁸⁵) | Equivalent | KEY SECURITY (SK 128 bytes): - Private key entropy: 1024 bits (2¹⁰²⁴ possibilities) - Quantum brute-force: √(2¹⁰²⁴) = 2⁵¹² ≈ 10¹⁵⁴ operations - Time required at 1 quintillion ops/sec (10¹⁸): 10¹³⁶ seconds ≈ 3 × 10¹²⁸ years SEED SECURITY (SEED 96 bytes): - Possible seeds: 2⁷⁶⁸ ≈ 10²³¹ - Quantum brute-force: √(2⁷⁶⁸) = 2³⁸⁴ ≈ 10¹¹⁵ operations - Time required at 1 billion ops/sec: 10¹⁰⁶ seconds ≈ 3 × 10⁹⁸ years INFORMATION THEORETIC ADVANTAGES: - Each signature reveals 4 bits of private key material - After 20 signatures: • ECDSA: Private key fully compromised • SPHINCS+: 80 bits revealed (7.81% of key) • Security margin remains: 944 bits (92.19%) == BACKWARD COMPATIBILITY == Phase | Legacy Wallets | QR Wallets ------|---------------------|------------------------ 1 | Full functionality | Can receive/send both types 2 | Can only send to QR | Full functionality 3+ | Frozen funds | Only QR transactions valid == DEPLOYMENT == Activation Mechanism: - Speedy Trial (BIP-8) with 18-month timeout - 90% miner signaling threshold Monitoring: - QR adoption metrics published quarterly - Sunset delay requires proof of: • <70% exchange/wallet adoption • Fundamental flaws in NIST PQC standards == STAKEHOLDER IMPACT == Group | Action Required | Timeline ----------------|-------------------------------|------------------- Miners | Upgrade nodes for QR rules | Phase 1 activation Exchanges | Implement QR withdrawals | Within 18 months of Phase 1 Hardware Wallets| Firmware updates for QR sigs | Before Phase 2 Light Clients | SPV proofs for QR scripts | Phase 3 readiness == REFERENCES == - SPHINCS+ Implementation: https://github.com/bitcoin-foundation/Quantum-Resistant-Bitcoin - (FIPS 205) SLH-DSA: https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/FIPS/NIST.FIPS.205.pdf - Schnorr Signatures: BIP-0340 == COPYRIGHT == MIT License --- This BIP presents an alternative quantum-resistant migration approach, primarily distinguished by its extended transition timeline to facilitate more comprehensive ecosystem adaptation. Key features: - Includes reference implementation of SPHINCS+-SHAKE256f (SLH-DSA-SHAKE-256f) - Provides comparative analysis against Bitcoin's current ECDSA scheme - Detailed technical specifications: https://github.com/bitcoin-foundation/Quantum-Resistant-Bitcoin Formatting note: This BIP draft prioritizes technical accuracy over visual polish. After incorporating feedback from this discussion, the final version will be published to GitHub with proper Markdown formatting. Feedback welcome from wallet developers, exchanges, miners, and security researchers. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/4d6ecde7-e959-4e6c-a0aa-867af8577151n%40googlegroups.com. 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* [bitcoindev] Re: [Draft BIP] Quantum-Resistant Transition Framework for Bitcoin 2025-08-07 18:18 [bitcoindev] [Draft BIP] Quantum-Resistant Transition Framework for Bitcoin 'Bitcoin Foundation' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2025-08-09 1:04 ` 'conduition' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2025-08-09 5:26 ` 'Bitcoin Foundation' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2025-08-20 17:14 ` [bitcoindev] " Murch 1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: 'conduition' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2025-08-09 1:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 10629 bytes --] I appreciate your enthusiasm for quantum resilience, but there are many things wrong with this proposal. - *"50 logical qubits - sufficient to break 256-bit ECDSA"* - The number of logical qubits required to break 256-bit ECC discrete log is on the order of thousands or millions, and nobody is even close yet. AFAIK the best known algorithm requires about 1536 qubits [0]. Please cite sources if you have been informed otherwise. - *"0-bit security"* ROFL, what does that even mean? Also you have the wrong big-O complexity for Shor's algorithm [1] - The 256-bit flavors of SLH-DSA are overkill. Bitcoin addresses are already fundamentally limited to 128 bits of security (a little less, actually) under a naive SHA256 or secp256k1 birthday attack. [2] Trying to add more is unnecessary, especially given the YUGE signatures required. - This proposal completely ignores other promising new cryptographic signing algorithms like ML-DSA [3] and SQISign [4] which would be needed for low-latency resource-constrained environments like LN nodes. - Freezing UTXOs without some sort of unlocking path baked-in ahead of time will cause a hard fork if we ever want to rescue them in the future. This has been discussed on prior threads. [8] - *"Each signature reveals 4 bits of private key material"*, that is not how SLH-DSA works. Each signature reveals some deterministically derived preimages, and commits to them in a carefully chosen chain of OTS certification signatures. The algorithm guarantees the probability of successful forgery stays below a certain threshold for up to `m` messages. In NIST SLH-DSA, m = 2^64. For the math see this script [5]. - Your "SPHINCS+ implementation" is just a wrapper around the python 'pyspx' package from PyPi with some encoding mechanisms sprinkled on top. The `pyspx` module was last updated three years ago [6] and SLH-DSA was only fully standardized two years ago, so your code is actually non-compliant with your own proposal. - *"This BIP draft prioritizes technical accuracy over visual polish"*. I think i'll stop now. If you're interested in meaningfully contributing to upgrading Bitcoin to be quantum resilient, I would suggest you stop trying to write your own spec single-handed, and start by reviewing BIP360 [7] and reading mailing list archives on post quantum upgrade proposals. There have been many... regards, conduition [0]: https://arxiv.org/pdf/quant-ph/0301141 (see section 6.2) [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shor%27s_algorithm [2]: https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/118928/what-does-it-mean-that-the-security-of-bitcoin-public-keys-and-256-bit-ecdsa-is/ [3]: https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/FIPS/NIST.FIPS.204.pdf [4]: https://sqisign.org/ [5]: https://gist.github.com/conduition/469725009397c08a2d40fb87c8ca7baa [6]: https://pypi.org/project/PySPX/#history [7]: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1670 [8]: https://groups.google.com/g/bitcoindev/c/uEaf4bj07rE/m/0Facb-SvBwAJ On Thursday, August 7, 2025 at 5:26:07 PM UTC-7 Bitcoin Foundation wrote: > BIP: TBD > Layer: Consensus (soft fork) > Title: Quantum-Resistant Transition Framework for Bitcoin > Author: Bitcoin Post-Quantum Working Group <pq-re...@bitcoin.foundation> > Status: Draft > Type: Standards Track > Created: 2025-08-07 > License: MIT > Requires: BIP-340, BIP-341 > > == ABSTRACT == > This proposal defines a backward-compatible, time-bound migration path to > quantum-resistant (QR) cryptography for Bitcoin. Through phased deprecation > of ECDSA/Schnorr signatures and mandatory adoption of NIST-standardized > post-quantum algorithms, it ensures Bitcoin's survival against quantum > attacks while minimizing disruption to existing infrastructure. > > == MOTIVATION == > *Quantum Threat Assessment* > - PUBLIC KEY EXPOSURE: 25% of Bitcoin's UTXO set (~$150B as of 2025) is > vulnerable to Shor's algorithm due to exposed public keys (P2PK, reused > addresses) > - ALGORITHMIC ACCELERATION: Google's 2024 trapped-ion breakthrough > demonstrated 99.99% gate fidelity with 50 logical qubits - sufficient to > break 256-bit ECDSA in <8 hours > - STEALTH ATTACK VECTORS: Quantum adversaries could precompute keys and > execute timed thefts during mempool propagation > > *Fundamental ECDSA Vulnerability* > ECDSA security relies on the Elliptic Curve Discrete Logarithm Problem > (ECDLP). Shor's quantum algorithm solves it in O((log n)³) time: > 1. For secp256k1: n ≈ 2²⁵⁶ > 2. Classical security: 128-bit > 3. Quantum security: 0-bit (broken by Shor) > 4. Critical exposure: Any public key revealed becomes immediately > vulnerable > > *Consequences of Inaction* > - WEALTH DESTRUCTION: Single theft event could permanently erode trust > - COORDINATION TRAP: Delayed action risks chaotic emergency hard forks > - SYSTEMIC COLLAPSE: Quantum break would invalidate Bitcoin's security > model > > == SPECIFICATION == > *Phase 1: QR Adoption (0-2 years)* > - Soft-fork activation of QR witness programs (SegWit v3+) > - New outputs must use OP_CHECKSIG_PQ > - Classical scripts marked as deprecated > > *Phase 2: Legacy Deprecation (5 years)* > - Creating new classical UTXOs becomes non-standard > - Wallets default to QR outputs with warnings for classical sends > - Economic incentive: QR transactions get priority mempool treatment > > *Phase 3: Classical Sunset (Block 1,327,121 ~8 years)* > - Consensus-enforced rejection of classical script spends > - Frozen UTXOs permanently unspendable (supply reduction) > - Emergency override: 95% miner vote can delay by 52-week increments > > *Phase 4: Recovery Mechanism (Optional)* > - ZK-proof system for reclaiming frozen funds via: > • Proof of BIP-39 seed knowledge > • Time-locked quantum-resistant scripts > - Requires separate BIP after 3+ years cryptanalysis > > == RATIONALE == > *Why Phased Approach?* > - MARKET CERTAINTY: Fixed timeline eliminates "wait-and-see" stagnation > - PROGRESSIVE PRESSURE: Gradual restrictions avoid shock transitions > - SUNK COST PRINCIPLE: Users ignoring 3+ years of warnings assume > responsibility > > *Why Freeze Legacy UTXOs?* > - Prevents quantum arms race for exposed coins > - Preserves Bitcoin's "lost coins" scarcity principle > - Avoids centralized redistribution committees > - Eliminates moral hazard of rewarding late migrators > - Reduces quantum attack surface > > *Algorithm Choice: SPHINCS+-SHAKE256f (SLH-DSA-SHAKE-256f)* > SECURITY PARAMETERS: > n: 256 > Hash: SHAKE256 > Classical Security: 2²⁵⁶ > Quantum Security: 2¹²⁸ > Private Key: 128 bytes > Public Key: 64 bytes > Signature: 49,856 bytes > > QUANTUM ATTACK RESISTANCE: > | Attack Type | Standard Bitcoin | This System | Security Factor > | > > |---------------------|------------------|---------------|-----------------| > | Shor's Algorithm | Broken | Not applicable| ∞ > | > | Grover's Algorithm | O(2¹²⁸) | O(2⁵¹²) | 2³⁸⁴ advantage | > | Collision Search | O(2⁸⁵) | O(2⁸⁵) | Equivalent | > > KEY SECURITY (SK 128 bytes): > - Private key entropy: 1024 bits (2¹⁰²⁴ possibilities) > - Quantum brute-force: √(2¹⁰²⁴) = 2⁵¹² ≈ 10¹⁵⁴ operations > - Time required at 1 quintillion ops/sec (10¹⁸): 10¹³⁶ seconds ≈ 3 × 10¹²⁸ > years > > SEED SECURITY (SEED 96 bytes): > - Possible seeds: 2⁷⁶⁸ ≈ 10²³¹ > - Quantum brute-force: √(2⁷⁶⁸) = 2³⁸⁴ ≈ 10¹¹⁵ operations > - Time required at 1 billion ops/sec: 10¹⁰⁶ seconds ≈ 3 × 10⁹⁸ years > > INFORMATION THEORETIC ADVANTAGES: > - Each signature reveals 4 bits of private key material > - After 20 signatures: > • ECDSA: Private key fully compromised > • SPHINCS+: 80 bits revealed (7.81% of key) > • Security margin remains: 944 bits (92.19%) > > == BACKWARD COMPATIBILITY == > Phase | Legacy Wallets | QR Wallets > ------|---------------------|------------------------ > 1 | Full functionality | Can receive/send both types > 2 | Can only send to QR | Full functionality > 3+ | Frozen funds | Only QR transactions valid > > == DEPLOYMENT == > Activation Mechanism: > - Speedy Trial (BIP-8) with 18-month timeout > - 90% miner signaling threshold > > Monitoring: > - QR adoption metrics published quarterly > - Sunset delay requires proof of: > • <70% exchange/wallet adoption > • Fundamental flaws in NIST PQC standards > > == STAKEHOLDER IMPACT == > Group | Action Required | Timeline > ----------------|-------------------------------|------------------- > Miners | Upgrade nodes for QR rules | Phase 1 activation > Exchanges | Implement QR withdrawals | Within 18 months of Phase > 1 > Hardware Wallets| Firmware updates for QR sigs | Before Phase 2 > Light Clients | SPV proofs for QR scripts | Phase 3 readiness > > == REFERENCES == > - SPHINCS+ Implementation: > https://github.com/bitcoin-foundation/Quantum-Resistant-Bitcoin > - (FIPS 205) SLH-DSA: > https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/FIPS/NIST.FIPS.205.pdf > - Schnorr Signatures: BIP-0340 > > == COPYRIGHT == > MIT License > > --- > > > This BIP presents an alternative quantum-resistant migration approach, > primarily distinguished by its extended transition timeline to facilitate > more comprehensive ecosystem adaptation. > > Key features: > - Includes reference implementation of SPHINCS+-SHAKE256f > (SLH-DSA-SHAKE-256f) > - Provides comparative analysis against Bitcoin's current ECDSA scheme > - Detailed technical specifications: > https://github.com/bitcoin-foundation/Quantum-Resistant-Bitcoin > > Formatting note: This BIP draft prioritizes technical accuracy over visual > polish. After incorporating feedback from this discussion, the final > version will be published to GitHub with proper Markdown formatting. > > Feedback welcome from wallet developers, exchanges, miners, and security > researchers. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/fff86606-d6ce-4319-a341-90e9c4eba49dn%40googlegroups.com. [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 12453 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* [bitcoindev] Re: [Draft BIP] Quantum-Resistant Transition Framework for Bitcoin 2025-08-09 1:04 ` [bitcoindev] " 'conduition' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2025-08-09 5:26 ` 'Bitcoin Foundation' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2025-08-09 19:38 ` 'ArmchairCryptologist' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: 'Bitcoin Foundation' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2025-08-09 5:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 14025 bytes --] An astute observation. To clarify the quantum computing landscape: Google's current quantum processors do not possess 50 logical qubits, and even if they did, this would be insufficient to compromise ECDSA - let alone RSA-2048, which would require approximately 20 million noisy physical qubits for successful cryptanalysis [0]. The security implications are stark: ECDSA effectively provides zero quantum resistance against Shor's algorithm when executed on a sufficiently large, fault-tolerant quantum computer. The draft BIP's statement regarding Shor's O((log n)³) complexity is mathematically sound - I encourage verification through standard academic references. Regarding SLH-DSA-SHAKE-256f (formerly SPHINCS+-SHAKE256f): this NIST-approved scheme provides a provable 256-bit security level (NIST Level 5). While its 49,856-byte signature size may appear large, Bitcoin's architecture can readily accommodate this without protocol modifications - the technical details of which are beyond the scope of this discussion. This BIP deliberately excludes non-NIST submissions like SQISign, which fails to meet basic security requirements upon examination. While ML-DSA (CRYSTALS-Dilithium) shows promise as a lattice-based alternative, its security depends on hardness assumptions that may not withstand future quantum advances. The cryptographic community recognizes SLH-DSA's hash-based construction as uniquely resilient: its lowest security tier exceeds the strongest configurations of many competing schemes. No known classical or quantum attacks exist against its underlying Merkle tree constructions. For Bitcoin's quantum-resistant future, SLH-DSA-SHAKE-256f represents the optimal choice - adopting weaker or non-standardized alternatives would necessitate repeated protocol upgrades, creating unacceptable technical debt. Implementation notes: 1) The pyspx library remains fully valid - NIST merely rebranded SPHINCS+ as SLH-DSA without algorithmic changes 2) SHAKE256's security derives from Keccak's extensively vetted sponge construction (FIPS 202 standard) [1] 3) The scheme benefits from 8+ years of cryptanalysis since its SHA-3 standardization We have launched a dedicated website, Quantum-Resistant Bitcoin at https://quantum-resistant-bitcoin.bitcoin.foundation, which provides a more comprehensive explanation of this BIP proposal. You may find additional clarity and technical details there. The website will be iteratively refined based on feedback from the Bitcoin Development Mailing List discussion. Once finalized, it will be converted to Markdown format and formally submitted to the bitcoin/bips GitHub repository. This is currently a draft proposal - substantive technical feedback is welcomed and encouraged. [0] Reference to quantum resource estimates for RSA-2048 - https://arxiv.org/pdf/1905.09749 [1] FIPS 202 SHA-3 Standard documentation - https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/FIPS/NIST.FIPS.202.pdf On Saturday, August 9, 2025 at 4:06:10 AM UTC+2 conduition wrote: > I appreciate your enthusiasm for quantum resilience, but there are many > things wrong with this proposal. > > > - *"50 logical qubits - sufficient to break 256-bit ECDSA"* - The number > of logical qubits required to break 256-bit ECC discrete log is on the > order of thousands or millions, and nobody is even close yet. AFAIK the > best known algorithm requires about 1536 qubits [0]. Please cite sources if > you have been informed otherwise. > - *"0-bit security"* ROFL, what does that even mean? Also you have the > wrong big-O complexity for Shor's algorithm [1] > - The 256-bit flavors of SLH-DSA are overkill. Bitcoin addresses are > already fundamentally limited to 128 bits of security (a little less, > actually) under a naive SHA256 or secp256k1 birthday attack. [2] Trying to > add more is unnecessary, especially given the YUGE signatures required. > - This proposal completely ignores other promising new cryptographic > signing algorithms like ML-DSA [3] and SQISign [4] which would be needed > for low-latency resource-constrained environments like LN nodes. > - Freezing UTXOs without some sort of unlocking path baked-in ahead of > time will cause a hard fork if we ever want to rescue them in the future. > This has been discussed on prior threads. [8] > - *"Each signature reveals 4 bits of private key material"*, that is not > how SLH-DSA works. Each signature reveals some deterministically derived > preimages, and commits to them in a carefully chosen chain of OTS > certification signatures. The algorithm guarantees the probability of > successful forgery stays below a certain threshold for up to `m` messages. > In NIST SLH-DSA, m = 2^64. For the math see this script [5]. > - Your "SPHINCS+ implementation" is just a wrapper around the python > 'pyspx' package from PyPi with some encoding mechanisms sprinkled on top. > The `pyspx` module was last updated three years ago [6] and SLH-DSA was > only fully standardized two years ago, so your code is actually > non-compliant with your own proposal. > - *"This BIP draft prioritizes technical accuracy over visual polish"*. I > think i'll stop now. > > If you're interested in meaningfully contributing to upgrading Bitcoin to > be quantum resilient, I would suggest you stop trying to write your own > spec single-handed, and start by reviewing BIP360 [7] and reading mailing > list archives on post quantum upgrade proposals. There have been many... > > regards, > conduition > > > [0]: https://arxiv.org/pdf/quant-ph/0301141 (see section 6.2) > [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shor%27s_algorithm > [2]: > https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/118928/what-does-it-mean-that-the-security-of-bitcoin-public-keys-and-256-bit-ecdsa-is/ > [3]: https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/FIPS/NIST.FIPS.204.pdf > [4]: https://sqisign.org/ > [5]: https://gist.github.com/conduition/469725009397c08a2d40fb87c8ca7baa > [6]: https://pypi.org/project/PySPX/#history > [7]: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1670 > [8]: https://groups.google.com/g/bitcoindev/c/uEaf4bj07rE/m/0Facb-SvBwAJ > > > On Thursday, August 7, 2025 at 5:26:07 PM UTC-7 Bitcoin Foundation wrote: > >> BIP: TBD >> Layer: Consensus (soft fork) >> Title: Quantum-Resistant Transition Framework for Bitcoin >> Author: Bitcoin Post-Quantum Working Group <pq-re...@bitcoin.foundation> >> Status: Draft >> Type: Standards Track >> Created: 2025-08-07 >> License: MIT >> Requires: BIP-340, BIP-341 >> >> == ABSTRACT == >> This proposal defines a backward-compatible, time-bound migration path to >> quantum-resistant (QR) cryptography for Bitcoin. Through phased deprecation >> of ECDSA/Schnorr signatures and mandatory adoption of NIST-standardized >> post-quantum algorithms, it ensures Bitcoin's survival against quantum >> attacks while minimizing disruption to existing infrastructure. >> >> == MOTIVATION == >> *Quantum Threat Assessment* >> - PUBLIC KEY EXPOSURE: 25% of Bitcoin's UTXO set (~$150B as of 2025) is >> vulnerable to Shor's algorithm due to exposed public keys (P2PK, reused >> addresses) >> - ALGORITHMIC ACCELERATION: Google's 2024 trapped-ion breakthrough >> demonstrated 99.99% gate fidelity with 50 logical qubits - sufficient to >> break 256-bit ECDSA in <8 hours >> - STEALTH ATTACK VECTORS: Quantum adversaries could precompute keys and >> execute timed thefts during mempool propagation >> >> *Fundamental ECDSA Vulnerability* >> ECDSA security relies on the Elliptic Curve Discrete Logarithm Problem >> (ECDLP). Shor's quantum algorithm solves it in O((log n)³) time: >> 1. For secp256k1: n ≈ 2²⁵⁶ >> 2. Classical security: 128-bit >> 3. Quantum security: 0-bit (broken by Shor) >> 4. Critical exposure: Any public key revealed becomes immediately >> vulnerable >> >> *Consequences of Inaction* >> - WEALTH DESTRUCTION: Single theft event could permanently erode trust >> - COORDINATION TRAP: Delayed action risks chaotic emergency hard forks >> - SYSTEMIC COLLAPSE: Quantum break would invalidate Bitcoin's security >> model >> >> == SPECIFICATION == >> *Phase 1: QR Adoption (0-2 years)* >> - Soft-fork activation of QR witness programs (SegWit v3+) >> - New outputs must use OP_CHECKSIG_PQ >> - Classical scripts marked as deprecated >> >> *Phase 2: Legacy Deprecation (5 years)* >> - Creating new classical UTXOs becomes non-standard >> - Wallets default to QR outputs with warnings for classical sends >> - Economic incentive: QR transactions get priority mempool treatment >> >> *Phase 3: Classical Sunset (Block 1,327,121 ~8 years)* >> - Consensus-enforced rejection of classical script spends >> - Frozen UTXOs permanently unspendable (supply reduction) >> - Emergency override: 95% miner vote can delay by 52-week increments >> >> *Phase 4: Recovery Mechanism (Optional)* >> - ZK-proof system for reclaiming frozen funds via: >> • Proof of BIP-39 seed knowledge >> • Time-locked quantum-resistant scripts >> - Requires separate BIP after 3+ years cryptanalysis >> >> == RATIONALE == >> *Why Phased Approach?* >> - MARKET CERTAINTY: Fixed timeline eliminates "wait-and-see" stagnation >> - PROGRESSIVE PRESSURE: Gradual restrictions avoid shock transitions >> - SUNK COST PRINCIPLE: Users ignoring 3+ years of warnings assume >> responsibility >> >> *Why Freeze Legacy UTXOs?* >> - Prevents quantum arms race for exposed coins >> - Preserves Bitcoin's "lost coins" scarcity principle >> - Avoids centralized redistribution committees >> - Eliminates moral hazard of rewarding late migrators >> - Reduces quantum attack surface >> >> *Algorithm Choice: SPHINCS+-SHAKE256f (SLH-DSA-SHAKE-256f)* >> SECURITY PARAMETERS: >> n: 256 >> Hash: SHAKE256 >> Classical Security: 2²⁵⁶ >> Quantum Security: 2¹²⁸ >> Private Key: 128 bytes >> Public Key: 64 bytes >> Signature: 49,856 bytes >> >> QUANTUM ATTACK RESISTANCE: >> | Attack Type | Standard Bitcoin | This System | Security >> Factor | >> >> |---------------------|------------------|---------------|-----------------| >> | Shor's Algorithm | Broken | Not applicable| ∞ >> | >> | Grover's Algorithm | O(2¹²⁸) | O(2⁵¹²) | 2³⁸⁴ advantage | >> | Collision Search | O(2⁸⁵) | O(2⁸⁵) | Equivalent | >> >> KEY SECURITY (SK 128 bytes): >> - Private key entropy: 1024 bits (2¹⁰²⁴ possibilities) >> - Quantum brute-force: √(2¹⁰²⁴) = 2⁵¹² ≈ 10¹⁵⁴ operations >> - Time required at 1 quintillion ops/sec (10¹⁸): 10¹³⁶ seconds ≈ 3 × >> 10¹²⁸ years >> >> SEED SECURITY (SEED 96 bytes): >> - Possible seeds: 2⁷⁶⁸ ≈ 10²³¹ >> - Quantum brute-force: √(2⁷⁶⁸) = 2³⁸⁴ ≈ 10¹¹⁵ operations >> - Time required at 1 billion ops/sec: 10¹⁰⁶ seconds ≈ 3 × 10⁹⁸ years >> >> INFORMATION THEORETIC ADVANTAGES: >> - Each signature reveals 4 bits of private key material >> - After 20 signatures: >> • ECDSA: Private key fully compromised >> • SPHINCS+: 80 bits revealed (7.81% of key) >> • Security margin remains: 944 bits (92.19%) >> >> == BACKWARD COMPATIBILITY == >> Phase | Legacy Wallets | QR Wallets >> ------|---------------------|------------------------ >> 1 | Full functionality | Can receive/send both types >> 2 | Can only send to QR | Full functionality >> 3+ | Frozen funds | Only QR transactions valid >> >> == DEPLOYMENT == >> Activation Mechanism: >> - Speedy Trial (BIP-8) with 18-month timeout >> - 90% miner signaling threshold >> >> Monitoring: >> - QR adoption metrics published quarterly >> - Sunset delay requires proof of: >> • <70% exchange/wallet adoption >> • Fundamental flaws in NIST PQC standards >> >> == STAKEHOLDER IMPACT == >> Group | Action Required | Timeline >> ----------------|-------------------------------|------------------- >> Miners | Upgrade nodes for QR rules | Phase 1 activation >> Exchanges | Implement QR withdrawals | Within 18 months of >> Phase 1 >> Hardware Wallets| Firmware updates for QR sigs | Before Phase 2 >> Light Clients | SPV proofs for QR scripts | Phase 3 readiness >> >> == REFERENCES == >> - SPHINCS+ Implementation: >> https://github.com/bitcoin-foundation/Quantum-Resistant-Bitcoin >> - (FIPS 205) SLH-DSA: >> https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/FIPS/NIST.FIPS.205.pdf >> - Schnorr Signatures: BIP-0340 >> >> == COPYRIGHT == >> MIT License >> >> --- >> >> >> This BIP presents an alternative quantum-resistant migration approach, >> primarily distinguished by its extended transition timeline to facilitate >> more comprehensive ecosystem adaptation. >> >> Key features: >> - Includes reference implementation of SPHINCS+-SHAKE256f >> (SLH-DSA-SHAKE-256f) >> - Provides comparative analysis against Bitcoin's current ECDSA scheme >> - Detailed technical specifications: >> https://github.com/bitcoin-foundation/Quantum-Resistant-Bitcoin >> >> Formatting note: This BIP draft prioritizes technical accuracy over >> visual polish. After incorporating feedback from this discussion, the final >> version will be published to GitHub with proper Markdown formatting. >> >> Feedback welcome from wallet developers, exchanges, miners, and security >> researchers. >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/6532d72c-fc2b-485a-9984-a9ade31e1760n%40googlegroups.com. [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 18614 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: [Draft BIP] Quantum-Resistant Transition Framework for Bitcoin 2025-08-09 5:26 ` 'Bitcoin Foundation' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2025-08-09 19:38 ` 'ArmchairCryptologist' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2025-08-12 22:47 ` 'Bitcoin Foundation' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2025-08-20 20:07 ` Alex Pruden 0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: 'ArmchairCryptologist' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2025-08-09 19:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List, Bitcoin Foundation [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2483 bytes --] > An astute observation. To clarify the quantum computing landscape: Google's current quantum processors do not possess 50 logical qubits, and even if they did, this would be insufficient to compromise ECDSA - let alone RSA-2048, which would require approximately 20 million noisy physical qubits for successful cryptanalysis [0]. That paper is pretty old. There is a recent paper from a couple of months ago by the same author (Craig Gidney from Google Quantum AI) claiming that you could break RSA-2048 with around a million noisy qubits in about a week. Paper: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2505.15917 Blog post: https://security.googleblog.com/2025/05/tracking-cost-of-quantum-factori.html I can't say for sure whether this approach can be applied to ECDSA; I have seen claims before that it has less quantum resistance than RSA-2048, but I'm unsure if this is still considered to be the case. And while these papers are of course largely theoretical in nature since nothing close to the required amount of qubits exists at this point, I haven't seen anyone refute these claim at this point. These is still no hard evidence I'm aware of that a quantum computer capable of breaking ECDSA is inevitable, but given the rate of development, there could be some cause of concern. Getting post-quantum addresses designed, implemented and activated by 2030 in accordance with the recommendations in this paper seems prudent to me, if this is at all possible. Deactivating inactive pre-quantum UTXOs with exposed public keys by 2035 should certainly be considered. But I still don't feel like deactivating pre-quantum UTXOs without exposed public keys in general is warranted, at least until a quantum computer capable of breaking public keys in the short time between they are broadcast and included in a block is known to exist - and even then, only if some scheme could be devised that still allows spending them using some additional cryptographic proof of ownership, ZKP or otherwise. -- Best, ArmchairCryptologist -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/1LDO_bQOdcKkNoKyyjfqLXAPUBVXSL667nAKDCNUfN2D7HEpDAkuFQrMubklIi1QdDI6BXdgB674g4uWYRlyQ5f-dlztDtnoEbIAlmrCg5M%3D%40protonmail.com. [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3628 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: [Draft BIP] Quantum-Resistant Transition Framework for Bitcoin 2025-08-09 19:38 ` 'ArmchairCryptologist' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2025-08-12 22:47 ` 'Bitcoin Foundation' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2025-08-20 20:15 ` 'ArmchairCryptologist' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2025-08-20 20:07 ` Alex Pruden 1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: 'Bitcoin Foundation' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2025-08-12 22:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4079 bytes --] Dear ArmchairCryptologist, We appreciate your engagement with our quantum resistance proposal. Let us address your points with additional technical context: *NIST Reference Documentation*The referenced blog post includes a link to NIST Internal Report 8547 (Initial Public Draft) [0], which offers critical guidance regarding the migration to post-quantum cryptographic standards. We strongly recommend thorough review of this document by all stakeholders evaluating quantum-resistant solutions. *Pre-Quantum UTXO Sunset Policy*Regarding the migration of pre-quantum UTXOs: - Our current draft proposes freezing these outputs around 2033 - This timeline appears in the "Migration Path: Phased Implementation" section (https://quantum-resistant-bitcoin.bitcoin.foundation) - We explicitly designed this as an adjustable parameter - Based on community feedback, we're prepared to extend this sunset period beyond 2035 The proposed recovery mechanism provides optional pathways for legacy UTXOs while maintaining network security. We remain open to community input regarding the sunset period for pre-quantum UTXOs. The current 2033 (block 1,327,121) proposal aligns conservatively with NIST's recommendation to deprecate ECDSA by 2035 [0], though we acknowledge reasonable arguments exist for adjusting this timeline. [0]: https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/ir/2024/NIST.IR.8547.ipd.pdf On Tuesday, August 12, 2025 at 11:04:32 AM UTC+2 ArmchairCryptologist wrote: > > An astute observation. To clarify the quantum computing landscape: > Google's current quantum processors do not possess 50 logical qubits, and > even if they did, this would be insufficient to compromise ECDSA - let > alone RSA-2048, which would require approximately 20 million noisy physical > qubits for successful cryptanalysis [0]. > > > That paper is pretty old. There is a recent paper from a couple of months > ago by the same author (Craig Gidney from Google Quantum AI) claiming > that you could break RSA-2048 with around a million noisy qubits in about a > week. > > Paper: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2505.15917 > Blog post: > https://security.googleblog.com/2025/05/tracking-cost-of-quantum-factori.html > > I can't say for sure whether this approach can be applied to ECDSA; I have > seen claims before that it has less quantum resistance than RSA-2048, but > I'm unsure if this is still considered to be the case. And while these > papers are of course largely theoretical in nature since nothing close to > the required amount of qubits exists at this point, I haven't seen anyone > refute these claim at this point. These is still no hard evidence I'm aware > of that a quantum computer capable of breaking ECDSA is inevitable, but > given the rate of development, there could be some cause of concern. > > Getting post-quantum addresses designed, implemented and activated by 2030 > in accordance with the recommendations in this paper seems prudent to me, > if this is at all possible. Deactivating inactive pre-quantum UTXOs with > exposed public keys by 2035 should certainly be considered. But I still > don't feel like deactivating pre-quantum UTXOs without exposed public keys > in general is warranted, at least until a quantum computer capable of > breaking public keys in the short time between they are broadcast and > included in a block is known to exist - and even then, only if some > scheme could be devised that still allows spending them using some > additional cryptographic proof of ownership, ZKP or otherwise. > > -- > Best, > ArmchairCryptologist > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/eefdcf22-9609-4fb1-b8c4-3274dc7f1f2en%40googlegroups.com. [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 5845 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: [Draft BIP] Quantum-Resistant Transition Framework for Bitcoin 2025-08-12 22:47 ` 'Bitcoin Foundation' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2025-08-20 20:15 ` 'ArmchairCryptologist' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: 'ArmchairCryptologist' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2025-08-20 20:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bitcoin Foundation, Bitcoin Development Mailing List [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 7099 bytes --] When it comes to the NIST recommendation for the deprecation timeline, there is now a (very) recent paper available, released on August 19th 2025 (i.e. yesterday as of this writing), which suggests the timeline should be moved up somewhat. This paper targets ECDLP and ECC in general, and secp256k1 as used in Bitcoin specifically. You can find this here: https://arxiv.org/abs/2508.14011 Some key takeaways: "When algorithmic curves and vendor trajectories are overlaid on this common ruler, the earliest inter- sections appear in the late 2020s; more conservative crossings cluster in the early 2030s. We therefore indicate a first plausible window for cryptanalytically relevant quantum computers (CRQCs) around 2027–2033. The endpoints move mainly with three levers: reliable magic-state supply at scale (dis- tillation or cultivation), code distance sufficient for multi-hour jobs, and classical-control latency that keeps pace with fast error-correction cycles. If any lever stalls, the window shifts to the right; if severalimprove together, it shifts to the left." "The classical record remains consistent with Θ(2b/2) scaling for generic prime-field curves (Section 3); constant-factor engineering wins have not changed the asymptotics. In parallel, logical-to-physical translations suggest that credible ECC-256 attacks via Shor’s algorithm require mid-10^5 to low-10^6 noisy qubits under surface code assumptions, with cat-qubit architectures offering alternative overhead tradeoffs (Section 4; [37, 39, 46]) by trading fewer physical qubits for an increased complexity of their architecture. Overlaying algorithmic cost with public roadmaps yields a first plausible window forcryptanalytically relevant quantum computers in roughly 2027–2033, albeit with wide error bars." The lower bound of the window seems highly optimistic to me when compared to the actual roadmaps for physical qubits provided by Google and IonQ (the most optimistic of the bunch) which are summarized on page 15, but targeting 2030 as an actual deadline for having quantum-resistant addresses ready for use is starting to look necessary. Even if the surface code assumptions that are relied upon to combine physical qubits into logical ones turn out to not hold water, and this ultimately means that the current approach to quantum computers is unworkable, if nothing else, it would to counter the inevitable FUD. -- Best, ArmchairCryptologist On Monday, August 18th, 2025 at 7:12 PM, 'Bitcoin Foundation' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> wrote: > Dear ArmchairCryptologist, > > We appreciate your engagement with our quantum resistance proposal. > Let us address your points with additional technical context: > > NIST Reference DocumentationThe referenced blog post includes a link to NIST Internal Report 8547 (Initial Public Draft) [0], which offers critical guidance regarding the migration to post-quantum cryptographic standards. We strongly recommend thorough review of this document by all stakeholders evaluating quantum-resistant solutions. > > Pre-Quantum UTXO Sunset PolicyRegarding the migration of pre-quantum UTXOs: > > - Our current draft proposes freezing these outputs around 2033 > - This timeline appears in the "Migration Path: Phased Implementation" section ([https://quantum-resistant-bitcoin.bitcoin.foundation](https://quantum-resistant-bitcoin.bitcoin.foundation/)) > - We explicitly designed this as an adjustable parameter > - Based on community feedback, we're prepared to extend this sunset period beyond 2035 > The proposed recovery mechanism provides optional pathways for legacy UTXOs while maintaining network security. > > We remain open to community input regarding the sunset period for pre-quantum UTXOs. The current 2033 (block 1,327,121) proposal aligns conservatively with NIST's recommendation to deprecate ECDSA by 2035 [0], though we acknowledge reasonable arguments exist for adjusting this timeline. > > [0]: https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/ir/2024/NIST.IR.8547.ipd.pdf > > On Tuesday, August 12, 2025 at 11:04:32 AM UTC+2 ArmchairCryptologist wrote: > >>> An astute observation. To clarify the quantum computing landscape: Google's current quantum processors do not possess 50 logical qubits, and even if they did, this would be insufficient to compromise ECDSA - let alone RSA-2048, which would require approximately 20 million noisy physical qubits for successful cryptanalysis [0]. >> >> That paper is pretty old. There is a recent paper from a couple of months ago by the same author (Craig Gidney from Google Quantum AI) claiming that you could break RSA-2048 with around a million noisy qubits in about a week. >> >> Paper: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2505.15917 >> >> Blog post: https://security.googleblog.com/2025/05/tracking-cost-of-quantum-factori.html >> >> I can't say for sure whether this approach can be applied to ECDSA; I have seen claims before that it has less quantum resistance than RSA-2048, but I'm unsure if this is still considered to be the case. And while these papers are of course largely theoretical in nature since nothing close to the required amount of qubits exists at this point, I haven't seen anyone refute these claim at this point. These is still no hard evidence I'm aware of that a quantum computer capable of breaking ECDSA is inevitable, but given the rate of development, there could be some cause of concern. >> >> Getting post-quantum addresses designed, implemented and activated by 2030 in accordance with the recommendations in this paper seems prudent to me, if this is at all possible. Deactivating inactive pre-quantum UTXOs with exposed public keys by 2035 should certainly be considered. But I still don't feel like deactivating pre-quantum UTXOs without exposed public keys in general is warranted, at least until a quantum computer capable of breaking public keys in the short time between they are broadcast and included in a block is known to exist - and even then, only if some scheme could be devised that still allows spending them using some additional cryptographic proof of ownership, ZKP or otherwise. >> >> -- >> Best, >> ArmchairCryptologist > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/eefdcf22-9609-4fb1-b8c4-3274dc7f1f2en%40googlegroups.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/-a-KFgZ_XFrN2mUZTauxRoD3H2f4Qhid-h1B2CcC0WgOxbJD-mfRvku_v-SOV7QcfAUpjgDO3kjJZvYnaNu1g0oXC9axoltclOgN628CMDc%3D%40protonmail.com. [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 11573 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: [Draft BIP] Quantum-Resistant Transition Framework for Bitcoin 2025-08-09 19:38 ` 'ArmchairCryptologist' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2025-08-12 22:47 ` 'Bitcoin Foundation' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2025-08-20 20:07 ` Alex Pruden 1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Alex Pruden @ 2025-08-20 20:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4378 bytes --] I consider the recent work by Mosca et al to be the most up-to-date in terms of research estimation: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167739X24004308 The estimate he provides is approximately an order of magnitude less work required to break ECDSA (P-256) vs RSA-2048. Ironically, the longer bit-lengths of RSA seem to actually contribute to post-quantum security, even though the motivation for moving from RSA-1024 was to protect against NFS and other classical attacks against shorter RSA instances. Note that the resource estimation in the paper doesn't account for Gidney's speedup, which was 20x reduction in qubits required. It's unclear whether that same improvement factor could be applied here; as the Gidney paper showed, the earliest CRQCs will probably be hardwired for certain circuits for performance reasons. E.g. Gidney's circuit layout works for RSA-2048 and that's it. But the ideas he presents around error correction (e.g. the yoked surface code) might apply more broadly, it's hard to say. Also note that many of his assumptions are based on a superconducting architecture, which generally have faster runtimes but lower stability (so scaling is harder) Other architectures like this one https://arxiv.org/pdf/2506.20660 from the neutral atom community have slower runtimes but greater stability. But even if you scale, it probably only works for targeted, long-range attacks vs specific PKs as a CRQC. Lots of variables to consider here in terms of estimating the timeline for a CRQC, but the proactive approach is probably the right one, because (to quote Gidney in his conclusion) we should "*prefer security to not be contingent on progress being slow.*" On Tuesday, August 12, 2025 at 3:04:32 AM UTC-6 ArmchairCryptologist wrote: > > An astute observation. To clarify the quantum computing landscape: > Google's current quantum processors do not possess 50 logical qubits, and > even if they did, this would be insufficient to compromise ECDSA - let > alone RSA-2048, which would require approximately 20 million noisy physical > qubits for successful cryptanalysis [0]. > > > That paper is pretty old. There is a recent paper from a couple of months > ago by the same author (Craig Gidney from Google Quantum AI) claiming > that you could break RSA-2048 with around a million noisy qubits in about a > week. > > Paper: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2505.15917 > Blog post: > https://security.googleblog.com/2025/05/tracking-cost-of-quantum-factori.html > > I can't say for sure whether this approach can be applied to ECDSA; I have > seen claims before that it has less quantum resistance than RSA-2048, but > I'm unsure if this is still considered to be the case. And while these > papers are of course largely theoretical in nature since nothing close to > the required amount of qubits exists at this point, I haven't seen anyone > refute these claim at this point. These is still no hard evidence I'm aware > of that a quantum computer capable of breaking ECDSA is inevitable, but > given the rate of development, there could be some cause of concern. > > Getting post-quantum addresses designed, implemented and activated by 2030 > in accordance with the recommendations in this paper seems prudent to me, > if this is at all possible. Deactivating inactive pre-quantum UTXOs with > exposed public keys by 2035 should certainly be considered. But I still > don't feel like deactivating pre-quantum UTXOs without exposed public keys > in general is warranted, at least until a quantum computer capable of > breaking public keys in the short time between they are broadcast and > included in a block is known to exist - and even then, only if some > scheme could be devised that still allows spending them using some > additional cryptographic proof of ownership, ZKP or otherwise. > > -- > Best, > ArmchairCryptologist > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/80005f10-e9af-4b4f-a05f-de2bd666d8ccn%40googlegroups.com. [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 6140 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] [Draft BIP] Quantum-Resistant Transition Framework for Bitcoin 2025-08-07 18:18 [bitcoindev] [Draft BIP] Quantum-Resistant Transition Framework for Bitcoin 'Bitcoin Foundation' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2025-08-09 1:04 ` [bitcoindev] " 'conduition' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2025-08-20 17:14 ` Murch 1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Murch @ 2025-08-20 17:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: bitcoindev This proposal is highly reminiscent of Lopp et al’s "A Post Quantum Migration Proposal"¹ previously discussed on this list². If this document is explicitly intended as a competing proposal to Lopp et al’s, this proposal would need to explicitly discuss shortcomings of Lopp et al’s proposal in a Related Work section and clearly explain in the Motivation and Rationale sections how this new proposal is an improvement to substantiate that the publication of a second proposal is meaningful. As it is currently presented, I don’t consider this proposal a significant value-add due to duplicating work. Regards, Murch ¹ https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1895 ² https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CADL_X_fpv-aXBxX+eJ_EVTirkAJGyPRUNqOCYdz5um8zu6ma5Q@mail.gmail.com/. On 2025-08-07 11:18, 'Bitcoin Foundation' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List wrote: > BIP: TBD > Layer: Consensus (soft fork) > Title: Quantum-Resistant Transition Framework for Bitcoin > Author: Bitcoin Post-Quantum Working Group > <pq-research@bitcoin.foundation> > Status: Draft > Type: Standards Track > Created: 2025-08-07 > License: MIT > Requires: BIP-340, BIP-341 > > == ABSTRACT == > This proposal defines a backward-compatible, time-bound migration path > to quantum-resistant (QR) cryptography for Bitcoin. Through phased > deprecation of ECDSA/Schnorr signatures and mandatory adoption of > NIST-standardized post-quantum algorithms, it ensures Bitcoin's > survival against quantum attacks while minimizing disruption to > existing infrastructure. > > == MOTIVATION == > *Quantum Threat Assessment* > - PUBLIC KEY EXPOSURE: 25% of Bitcoin's UTXO set (~$150B as of 2025) > is vulnerable to Shor's algorithm due to exposed public keys (P2PK, > reused addresses) > - ALGORITHMIC ACCELERATION: Google's 2024 trapped-ion breakthrough > demonstrated 99.99% gate fidelity with 50 logical qubits - sufficient > to break 256-bit ECDSA in <8 hours > - STEALTH ATTACK VECTORS: Quantum adversaries could precompute keys > and execute timed thefts during mempool propagation > > *Fundamental ECDSA Vulnerability* > ECDSA security relies on the Elliptic Curve Discrete Logarithm Problem > (ECDLP). Shor's quantum algorithm solves it in O((log n)³) time: > 1. For secp256k1: n ≈ 2²⁵⁶ > 2. Classical security: 128-bit > 3. Quantum security: 0-bit (broken by Shor) > 4. Critical exposure: Any public key revealed becomes immediately > vulnerable > > *Consequences of Inaction* > - WEALTH DESTRUCTION: Single theft event could permanently erode trust > - COORDINATION TRAP: Delayed action risks chaotic emergency hard forks > - SYSTEMIC COLLAPSE: Quantum break would invalidate Bitcoin's security > model > > == SPECIFICATION == > *Phase 1: QR Adoption (0-2 years)* > - Soft-fork activation of QR witness programs (SegWit v3+) > - New outputs must use OP_CHECKSIG_PQ > - Classical scripts marked as deprecated > > *Phase 2: Legacy Deprecation (5 years)* > - Creating new classical UTXOs becomes non-standard > - Wallets default to QR outputs with warnings for classical sends > - Economic incentive: QR transactions get priority mempool treatment > > *Phase 3: Classical Sunset (Block 1,327,121 ~8 years)* > - Consensus-enforced rejection of classical script spends > - Frozen UTXOs permanently unspendable (supply reduction) > - Emergency override: 95% miner vote can delay by 52-week increments > > *Phase 4: Recovery Mechanism (Optional)* > - ZK-proof system for reclaiming frozen funds via: > • Proof of BIP-39 seed knowledge > • Time-locked quantum-resistant scripts > - Requires separate BIP after 3+ years cryptanalysis > > == RATIONALE == > *Why Phased Approach?* > - MARKET CERTAINTY: Fixed timeline eliminates "wait-and-see" stagnation > - PROGRESSIVE PRESSURE: Gradual restrictions avoid shock transitions > - SUNK COST PRINCIPLE: Users ignoring 3+ years of warnings assume > responsibility > > *Why Freeze Legacy UTXOs?* > - Prevents quantum arms race for exposed coins > - Preserves Bitcoin's "lost coins" scarcity principle > - Avoids centralized redistribution committees > - Eliminates moral hazard of rewarding late migrators > - Reduces quantum attack surface > > *Algorithm Choice: SPHINCS+-SHAKE256f (SLH-DSA-SHAKE-256f)* > SECURITY PARAMETERS: > n: 256 > Hash: SHAKE256 > Classical Security: 2²⁵⁶ > Quantum Security: 2¹²⁸ > Private Key: 128 bytes > Public Key: 64 bytes > Signature: 49,856 bytes > > QUANTUM ATTACK RESISTANCE: > | Attack Type | Standard Bitcoin | This System | Security > Factor | > |---------------------|------------------|---------------|-----------------| > | Shor's Algorithm | Broken | Not applicable| ∞ | > | Grover's Algorithm | O(2¹²⁸) | O(2⁵¹²) | 2³⁸⁴ advantage | > | Collision Search | O(2⁸⁵) | O(2⁸⁵) | Equivalent | > > KEY SECURITY (SK 128 bytes): > - Private key entropy: 1024 bits (2¹⁰²⁴ possibilities) > - Quantum brute-force: √(2¹⁰²⁴) = 2⁵¹² ≈ 10¹⁵⁴ operations > - Time required at 1 quintillion ops/sec (10¹⁸): 10¹³⁶ seconds ≈ 3 × > 10¹²⁸ years > > SEED SECURITY (SEED 96 bytes): > - Possible seeds: 2⁷⁶⁸ ≈ 10²³¹ > - Quantum brute-force: √(2⁷⁶⁸) = 2³⁸⁴ ≈ 10¹¹⁵ operations > - Time required at 1 billion ops/sec: 10¹⁰⁶ seconds ≈ 3 × 10⁹⁸ years > > INFORMATION THEORETIC ADVANTAGES: > - Each signature reveals 4 bits of private key material > - After 20 signatures: > • ECDSA: Private key fully compromised > • SPHINCS+: 80 bits revealed (7.81% of key) > • Security margin remains: 944 bits (92.19%) > > == BACKWARD COMPATIBILITY == > Phase | Legacy Wallets | QR Wallets > ------|---------------------|------------------------ > 1 | Full functionality | Can receive/send both types > 2 | Can only send to QR | Full functionality > 3+ | Frozen funds | Only QR transactions valid > > == DEPLOYMENT == > Activation Mechanism: > - Speedy Trial (BIP-8) with 18-month timeout > - 90% miner signaling threshold > > Monitoring: > - QR adoption metrics published quarterly > - Sunset delay requires proof of: > • <70% exchange/wallet adoption > • Fundamental flaws in NIST PQC standards > > == STAKEHOLDER IMPACT == > Group | Action Required | Timeline > ----------------|-------------------------------|------------------- > Miners | Upgrade nodes for QR rules | Phase 1 activation > Exchanges | Implement QR withdrawals | Within 18 months of > Phase 1 > Hardware Wallets| Firmware updates for QR sigs | Before Phase 2 > Light Clients | SPV proofs for QR scripts | Phase 3 readiness > > == REFERENCES == > - SPHINCS+ Implementation: > https://github.com/bitcoin-foundation/Quantum-Resistant-Bitcoin > - (FIPS 205) SLH-DSA: > https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/FIPS/NIST.FIPS.205.pdf > - Schnorr Signatures: BIP-0340 > > == COPYRIGHT == > MIT License > > --- > > > This BIP presents an alternative quantum-resistant migration approach, > primarily distinguished by its extended transition timeline to > facilitate more comprehensive ecosystem adaptation. > > Key features: > - Includes reference implementation of SPHINCS+-SHAKE256f > (SLH-DSA-SHAKE-256f) > - Provides comparative analysis against Bitcoin's current ECDSA scheme > - Detailed technical specifications: > https://github.com/bitcoin-foundation/Quantum-Resistant-Bitcoin > > Formatting note: This BIP draft prioritizes technical accuracy over > visual polish. After incorporating feedback from this discussion, the > final version will be published to GitHub with proper Markdown formatting. > > Feedback welcome from wallet developers, exchanges, miners, and > security researchers. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/4d6ecde7-e959-4e6c-a0aa-867af8577151n%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/4d6ecde7-e959-4e6c-a0aa-867af8577151n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/284507c2-b5d1-45a5-849f-408d3bf364a6%40murch.one. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2025-08-21 0:07 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2025-08-07 18:18 [bitcoindev] [Draft BIP] Quantum-Resistant Transition Framework for Bitcoin 'Bitcoin Foundation' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2025-08-09 1:04 ` [bitcoindev] " 'conduition' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2025-08-09 5:26 ` 'Bitcoin Foundation' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2025-08-09 19:38 ` 'ArmchairCryptologist' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2025-08-12 22:47 ` 'Bitcoin Foundation' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2025-08-20 20:15 ` 'ArmchairCryptologist' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2025-08-20 20:07 ` Alex Pruden 2025-08-20 17:14 ` [bitcoindev] " Murch
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