From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1YPXBz-0003Md-TG for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 14:07:31 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of petertodd.org designates 62.13.148.99 as permitted sender) client-ip=62.13.148.99; envelope-from=pete@petertodd.org; helo=outmail148099.authsmtp.net; Received: from outmail148099.authsmtp.net ([62.13.148.99]) by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) id 1YPXBy-0003RZ-Ev for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 14:07:31 +0000 Received: from mail-c235.authsmtp.com (mail-c235.authsmtp.com [62.13.128.235]) by punt18.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id t1ME7NSM025738; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 14:07:23 GMT Received: from android-d3b8368ef6b3bf03.lan (76-10-178-110.dsl.teksavvy.com [76.10.178.110]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id t1ME7LBd043549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 22 Feb 2015 14:07:22 GMT In-Reply-To: <2953246.T2DHreG0Tu@crushinator> References: <20150222123428.GA6570@savin.petertodd.org> <2953246.T2DHreG0Tu@crushinator> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 From: Peter Todd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 14:07:11 +0000 To: Matt Whitlock , Natanael Message-ID: <871A4914-B4DA-4D44-89AF-49DE936A8237@petertodd.org> X-Server-Quench: 1f0d494e-ba9c-11e4-b396-002590a15da7 X-AuthReport-Spam: If SPAM / abuse - report it at: http://www.authsmtp.com/abuse X-AuthRoute: OCd2Yg0TA1ZNQRgX IjsJECJaVQIpKltL GxAVKBZePFsRUQkR aQdMdAAUHlAWAgsB AmMbWlBeUFp7W2E7 bAxPbAVDY01GQQRr UFdNRFdNFUssAGF0 AWJsBhl2dABCcTB5 bU9kEHENXBB+fEIo XxwFHD4bZGY1bH1N U0leagNUcgZDfk5E bwQuUz1vNG8XDQg5 AwQ0PjZ0MThBJSBS WgQAK04nCU8PAjMm QRkeEH03B0odQD46 K1QhMkJZHUBZN0Q0 PEFpRVsbPgRzBgpD FUVARTRBKl8ND2oR AFESR0MGFDRWTGJW E1gmLxIAHGQUA3Ie XFFOF1Bn X-Authentic-SMTP: 61633532353630.1023:706 X-AuthFastPath: 0 (Was 255) X-AuthSMTP-Origin: 76.10.178.110/465 X-AuthVirus-Status: No virus detected - but ensure you scan with your own anti-virus system. X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record X-Headers-End: 1YPXBy-0003RZ-Ev Cc: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] alternate proposal opt-in miner takes double-spend (Re: replace-by-fee v0.10.0rc4) X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 14:07:32 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 22 February 2015 08:50:30 GMT-05:00, Matt Whitlock wrote: >On Sunday, 22 February 2015, at 2:29 pm, Natanael wrote: >> In other words, you are unprotected and potentially at greater risk >if you >> create a transaction depending on another zero-confirmation >transaction. > >This happened to one of the merchants at the Bitcoin 2013 conference in >San Jose. They sold some T-shirts and accepted zero-confirmation >transactions. The transactions depended on other unconfirmed >transactions, which never confirmed, so this merchant never got their >money. Great example! Systems that appear more secure than they really are to uninformed users are dangerous. Same reason why brain wallets are such scary technology, and equally, why I like to give a few dollars away every so often to the guys brute forcing weak ones. >I keep telling people not to accept transactions with zero >confirmations, but no one listens. In my experience there's a pattern of "accept unconfirmed; get burned badly/see someone else get burned; stop relying on them" Although of course, there's some bias in that people contact me asking what to do after they get burned. :) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQE9BAEBCAAnIBxQZXRlciBUb2RkIDxwZXRlQHBldGVydG9kZC5vcmc+BQJU6eKG AAoJEMCF8hzn9LncGz0H/ivA9J4MqsVnkPm9JVAIXgZiT7rAVO0Rp1lO/8PGPS6K dXBFXESicszeBx5yeyQrLUFh58DVgp21sFHSMNTKmujDJJgxNf/ygffN9dTLriwt PJcDWvxPzqyLy2e/CloRonxwlO3+Umv1OiPs1yy7a7auDVAEm1xvh/pc3A48u1bO ++cyxZs8j5yv3Ms2n/FmGekhL9jZHJAgmiVnSks0cMqq9+cYipEjy+FEq3KFGlFI 4iZ58f57g6W7bVqM+9Z6dbLczWobnQ+nfo7lFZWgGdbhKf4Jv7tHOcfSw4nbmJz4 OgWmKtM724h7abOIrqJnTF0u10dmapVv+lRtjiGXo8c= =7W03 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----