From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1VHKLN-0002XI-PV for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Wed, 04 Sep 2013 21:10:29 +0000 X-ACL-Warn: Received: from mail-ea0-f173.google.com ([209.85.215.173]) by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1VHKLL-0001aL-CP for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Wed, 04 Sep 2013 21:10:29 +0000 Received: by mail-ea0-f173.google.com with SMTP id g10so463769eak.32 for ; Wed, 04 Sep 2013 14:10:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:content-type:date:subject:to :message-id:mime-version; bh=SSAY0rS4SguCTY9mNhgXyyQths+KsAt+Q/OJS8ngXO0=; b=E9UJ8MBUbWujo1nE3gJMqypVdLJbKi6nEjU09+mLYRCMdBHOkao6Sn2YDHwZFh15ay Ct5105R5rIsD0hnoKKsS1zU0a4a4YD+sAsh81jF9x4+DXljAB+wrtZesot+DHomGse89 YJgdB3NY+zdD3tZXvhYhjKIrYycbQOkSJJoY4Y1NTRJu07/FiQWahJXrT3z0v3aqOlYo BzDdxWOm5jct3xr3xFm9omx60oTHBCWHAvnFpv+UY3+6H6ooq9EvtIFjvlLrQXUYaeXo 2SEscuHdt64vJd0XG1kkADmbbu2vL8X8ayh6i4S3zAAEcLWSxDFwuxxqj2M32fG7Li6g KR7Q== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmjoqEFwZ9fQBx8HAEm1GtrYy89sOzrN5FAqADkX0Alm9+Yy/AjdbqGv9bxdJZ9r8riyO++ X-Received: by 10.14.208.194 with SMTP id q42mr7777836eeo.31.1378329020567; Wed, 04 Sep 2013 14:10:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (foto.ro1.torservers.net. [109.163.233.194]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id bn13sm43125794eeb.11.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 04 Sep 2013 14:10:19 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Wendell From: Wendell Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E0EA7689-FC5B-40C9-AAF4-687A5872528F"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2013 21:47:09 +0200 To: Bitcoin Dev Message-Id: <879EBFD7-3047-4ECD-B03B-941857F7970C@grabhive.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1283) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1283) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. X-Headers-End: 1VHKLL-0001aL-CP Subject: [Bitcoin-development] An "app store" and non-network transaction fees X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2013 21:10:29 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E0EA7689-FC5B-40C9-AAF4-687A5872528F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi everyone, Our OS X wallet "Hive" features an integrated application platform. We = hope this will be a great way for folks new to Bitcoin to discover a = variety of Bitcoin businesses, from exchanges, to merchants, to games. = The applications are locally hosted HTML/JS, and generally feature the = most stripped-down UIs possible. We display them in a = mobile-proportioned WebKit frame inside of Hive itself. Transaction = requests within apps trigger native Cocoa dialogue boxes and everything = feels nicely integrated and secure. Should Hive succeed in gaining a foothold, we hope that we may one day = be able to sustain ourselves via an aggregate of very small fees on = transactions within this app platform. We like the approach because it = lets us stay focused on making Hive great, and keeping it free, but at = the same time we recognize that it is a kind of obligatory middleman... = With all that that implies? I'm not totally sure, and that's what the = question is about. Obviously there are a couple of brain-dead approaches: We could track = what users do in the app, and send the business a bill (with blockchain = proof, of course). Or, we could avoid troubling the business and have = each user send a micro-transaction to some address of our choosing. The = first one is messy and essentially makes us spyware. The second one is = technically difficult, making a mess of transaction history, balances, = and possibly in-app price listings. I'm not happy with either, but would = lean towards the second one if I had to choose. I'm not 100% sure if this is the appropriate venue for it, but before we = make that decision, I wanted to state our intentions and see if I could = get some fresher ideas in the door. We want to be as ethical and = (ideally) decentralized as possible -- priorities #1 and #2 -- but are = otherwise open-minded. Some technical details for the curious: 1) Yes, everything will be free software under a GPL license -- = including the app store and the apps themselves! That may seem to be = risky given our proposed business model, but we are open-minded and = think we very much welcome the 'competition' of a would-be forker / hope = we can work together. ;-) 2) Although our BitcoinKit.framework supports both bitcoind and = bitcoinj, we will be using bitcoinj with an integrated VM for the time = being. The main draw is SPV, although to be honest we would prefer to = support the network more via something like Peter Todd's partial UTXO = sets idea (hint hint, anyone?). We will be at the conference in Amsterdam on the 27th of this month if = any of you want to meet and discuss. Thanks for your time, -wendell grabhive.com | twitter.com/grabhive | gpg: 6C0C9411 --Apple-Mail=_E0EA7689-FC5B-40C9-AAF4-687A5872528F Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.18 (Darwin) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJSJ449AAoJECAN2ykHU5Y6kLYQAJZbD0g/eG4UzJES4BVdeBBW CYopZWciHU69qFkl3NYxp6gcLJMpS4+Ql9ujNcih07AA3yToRRHqGTKgoGPmSKxq tWuIQXssuxjksugTLI9KNVOhsGWZO9rs5I4vnFM5qN07pnuHv+pX6IBNZrbyax9q sd3cdIVqVNAiXk8FswxNVtv4yWBsve21Z0YIiL9qUWtoiN+Cgp9ZEN+wrxXqTwS9 8uwHOkLlWJkYODCqdY4YwfssWlLxsIrR69ouGrgjINA9tRaPsuIB3N4Do4t/LvmZ xoC8WaL3SlMrBQJPHtGkdhyvj5tDQPRfEWXiXTiNDupWmjylrhIQWpfAceoN7x/K pzIocRV5AsCZdzbB2iIw6+OaGahjgVRQbmsJeJm3V4kVoYCC9CI5re3AJqfRqbRD CVjnYyWUsTI0KNQj672PrYx10nwjUigkXboDYQPtfmgbnh85R6h+PZLoN19MLaqK QhMCD75wSFWgpeUd512aPQVl/qtrbB4k+KlBy2H59GP9xbpxK/UEy/UoubdlNerA w5tE9bPQ1B7AhSYZr53u5WbN/O4c0ht1GCGsAu/HaAE2KqhjPXVEioBLO2euJeCX bZ2k9Zo1ktDyucrA/QRkbhMU1DPvAWXwUy9Nycx8cM2ol4jN9ezGOMDmURfriRSM uGMf87NmN8tCFb2ykGt+ =94nS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_E0EA7689-FC5B-40C9-AAF4-687A5872528F--