From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Delivery-date: Mon, 28 Apr 2025 05:51:04 -0700 Received: from mail-oa1-f58.google.com ([209.85.160.58]) by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1u9Nwt-0001fS-Gy for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Mon, 28 Apr 2025 05:51:04 -0700 Received: by mail-oa1-f58.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-2c76babdcedsf1130580fac.2 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2025 05:51:03 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1745844656; cv=pass; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=DItLp1IxC7GnnEzT2nIDn1hqx2KYqHpVyDkZazz+FHnTOzhUEEoC1+optv3Xi/5q23 jmqDhJrpRuMdTnI4cA6br6wdEDQ90M3G+Ah/0M/ubH63SB1A1X03HXeJosPWGfrFPHEt E0AoqCTcrhVxBOUbryFmd2V7D6TOjZvcgy8QaF5IjwspwqijMtvdRk2a7gtqqxr63i0d ySzUbaZAH00+gwcDrLhhir7TMke4d1c2m1SkEC3MTEU/piu3jWWExbkyJNGPgz5vFAIJ W4SCVKj3mTYJidcHVjQDj9ATzL25eb+5DAQfXuT3JnLkj8+c1BwnqtTHTU7WCb8xf+KS ioDA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:to:references:message-id:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:feedback-id:sender :dkim-signature; bh=xWyRsoz64ugEiTuEvGVAPSp3naZindrRcHYd6F2IIP0=; fh=W34EQfKTd8klFAmxsjuSJFfr8JmDr2nSyyRhSRzz8Sw=; b=Hm2uLP0X32fDmok1etS0ooImRnY3BAoj3CTK7kWQjDZRTtIcWzx4YCivvc8/1LTxTG g5Qe3VuqbjBQRTzZBjitzF9TRQKqI0cFjinUzsR1cwCS1NVvBe7mymQfIo4Gpj2FxwsP JEJOtkq+TAVEvUPchDoXRHup3r45WF0dPIXpU6qX3uXeYmft4ed7u0LIMII/oFKjjviG vIq25NUx5xfQ10UoMDMkvPipDtqTa1IEXY3tMazWQ9zq0dTJh/P2qRNgFVUpYjm5Zn7r 1fw5zeWNK0kCl60shw6MMRzD65EIHDxPMADz1KaCIkcrpThGLOJfXlRPyuSEPBIq4icE BJlA==; darn=gnusha.org ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@sprovoost.nl header.s=fm1 header.b="P7RU/QTH"; dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b=nOZ40VSi; spf=pass (google.com: domain of sjors@sprovoost.nl designates 202.12.124.153 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=sjors@sprovoost.nl; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=sprovoost.nl DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1745844656; x=1746449456; darn=gnusha.org; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:to:references:message-id:cc:date:in-reply-to:from :subject:mime-version:feedback-id:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=xWyRsoz64ugEiTuEvGVAPSp3naZindrRcHYd6F2IIP0=; b=QVdw8Oa389Gpc8XU3ByJ73RIeIy5+ns3yYaAQwguiQpu/hjk2Cw//t13MrKH5CO292 gOV+DDgJ58XkUAtGMeKY0ac82MzGrbSs10OeZgoieAjLw3uZM9/HzLldMjiDq07cZPCR 2QnJpkCJPmqy4BbN8ZAFksaGk3bt4nmaeWBobCg7Ml744olvgXX9ThfPXAmI/qAi54S7 ZI2LaWKQCA0TA00H2sm1cg9VUiZSL1cDC2ysJjCi13YXKuq1GVfbCUM4jz7TWe5rgneG cUtIMxvFbx3FGF1DAm8SHhkZ6ZMILUV8gCvgs1eKM8WSS90zyVow1CqBbuNFl3LDsi6d wDOA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1745844656; x=1746449456; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:to:references:message-id:cc:date:in-reply-to:from :subject:mime-version:feedback-id:x-beenthere:x-gm-message-state :sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=xWyRsoz64ugEiTuEvGVAPSp3naZindrRcHYd6F2IIP0=; b=c/bNIQ0+3exr1lOgtDUBW3io8As9qw18djcmXQOFlKB6N83rFY6+haMMNia9/AHDQq kyRDdpGomU2apJt5QFAJN/zF2X7TBGCLdohuR7MNU1B5plPE+VhhOUb8XlcpN1RDT/q4 vpTXl9qF+LNCwfWh9tomkNGlsAC9UBQDxYTX1vHugs2c91V3ohKT30aOeQfZKgIZBBWj 674EBQ+sZjzQazM+HFAxn2HuAtjk8v8T4o0zD67A9XWrnIkuW7w4rPydLmznA+0S45TO o5MpPWwBbycpmjUbPZpJL3CfsJfb6pO74Je8iGqpSwdn9eikHRvo6jEimr9zsvkjQZOA 2KJQ== Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCXDgWxSTJ7dU013y7IQHtqrJIDDt2G55mr577BZvjkB6357/AfSRjO86Lfo2h5HuggZ6QSn0a7YRDfl@gnusha.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwMle6dMiaoIc5rHquPC/WeOyvq+t/pYTm033PayLXV51Bwyf1S gOFh8XKlbNqfFcKV28KG3L+k7mC9mGSyIi8ZTXk2sekB+oIBdYXw X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHmoRe00mCK8pDoOcvfcvm5ecinTV2EUX2yjbqjigTTowvZFqo9l8NPI0vMXH2N4j2qKbSkqQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:1792:b0:2d9:3868:b324 with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-2d9be6434bemr4758445fac.23.1745844656220; Mon, 28 Apr 2025 05:50:56 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; h=AVT/gBE2xjfsn3ayjEUSJTPInkAQKigdcgGY3hfBZtfqHASwTg== Received: by 2002:a05:6870:b010:b0:2d5:b2c1:db0b with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-2d965f5752cls1216987fac.2.-pod-prod-06-us; Mon, 28 Apr 2025 05:50:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:3a0c:b0:401:ea99:533 with SMTP id 5614622812f47-401fd79d5f1mr6298817b6e.26.1745844652787; Mon, 28 Apr 2025 05:50:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 2002:a05:6808:2002:b0:3fa:da36:efcd with SMTP id 5614622812f47-401f2fc0e20msb6e; Mon, 28 Apr 2025 05:47:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:4595:b0:2c1:62ba:cd7c with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-2d9be58e9a7mr4499271fac.15.1745844446296; Mon, 28 Apr 2025 05:47:26 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1745844446; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=WlDiCweSaeJoSrQM7S5+axIJOcDvtC0VxZak7536nj3iG8ngLAqT5KlR6UJM7Jm0jA 5SkmlkF/lljp36EgjzQ7U3rXWyEtpeuILkfxpOTLmP4i1S+RouCoLbvOHHqYYGh+O3f5 S5aQmmHN8yoMd6o8DV3BuYShGRTlrJJ5URhzCdLZdW5Ar8F/5hVs8yOw92P5V6obQcIn SqVmW0kudLkR5S0vgU0wZ6LAn+htu2/ZNK2V5EhlIYNXsRnxtMrl4DRSbsSh3ZArDShT JdZCv/SnxlgbFEw1ssw7cdV1M5N0LmqgSZLnVL4HbcGsRR4FbRw3fPKMC9c6qLxQCPxp 3q3w== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:feedback-id:dkim-signature :dkim-signature; bh=y0FKbLBzcZvr9e5mrM+z8rzrnZfscgIBLqo2L9cIENQ=; fh=QOXICK7MdMFzlCcEdGqOz1EExOfW9ZtBy94TIqMEfl8=; b=lPdOz2mlFaogR8BdETppH1aHo8LHAxArpU4czcLXw4Q/qPPMSa2/7kNwmiIpHd5PZ7 zfFyVtnulsoJiYy+AgMOW4JzxOvnB7qqVyYIRKRkRBiE3IzMzfcZsOLM8ybJLRyEQRSV ak8m3+McK3oIarAwN17QJY83Jk/uj5G4UNaSVB6Jc3RiII3Bge1ncvSE59CygwNv0KhA 4/HhCapEI9pIrhubN5//nuAvTgqCpZAMVdXpxYOFcRC3zLFX9A3B0ZFOEkQBB49Lr41x JvtZKfRUAkxmMQW28ruaumMIMdX4UTO/FzJ9Qk3IMWHVZeHha0gRprN8YFV8yg5WghSu XL8g==; dara=google.com ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@sprovoost.nl header.s=fm1 header.b="P7RU/QTH"; dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b=nOZ40VSi; spf=pass (google.com: domain of sjors@sprovoost.nl designates 202.12.124.153 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=sjors@sprovoost.nl; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=sprovoost.nl Received: from fhigh-b2-smtp.messagingengine.com (fhigh-b2-smtp.messagingengine.com. [202.12.124.153]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 586e51a60fabf-2d97375772dsi3229fac.2.2025.04.28.05.47.25 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 28 Apr 2025 05:47:25 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of sjors@sprovoost.nl designates 202.12.124.153 as permitted sender) client-ip=202.12.124.153; Received: from phl-compute-04.internal (phl-compute-04.phl.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailfhigh.stl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EE17254026E; Mon, 28 Apr 2025 08:47:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phl-mailfrontend-02 ([10.202.2.163]) by phl-compute-04.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 28 Apr 2025 08:47:25 -0400 X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeefvddrtddtgddviedtleekucetufdoteggodetrf dotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggv pdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpih gvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujfgurheptggguffhjgffvefgkfhfvffosehtqhhmtdhh tddvnecuhfhrohhmpefujhhorhhsucfrrhhovhhoohhsthcuoehsjhhorhhssehsphhroh hvohhoshhtrdhnlheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepjeekueduieeihfelkeeifffhgefh teefuddtveffhfdvieduheefvefgtddtueeknecuffhomhgrihhnpehgihhthhhusgdrtg homhenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehs jhhorhhssehsphhrohhvohhoshhtrdhnlhdpnhgspghrtghpthhtohepfedpmhhouggvpe hsmhhtphhouhhtpdhrtghpthhtohepsghithgtohhinhguvghvsehgohhoghhlvghgrhho uhhpshdrtghomhdprhgtphhtthhopehsrghinhhtfigvnhhhrghosehgmhgrihhlrdgtoh hmpdhrtghpthhtohepjhgrmhgvshhonhdrlhhophhpsehgmhgrihhlrdgtohhm X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: ie5e042df:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 28 Apr 2025 08:47:24 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.500.181.1.5\)) Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Unbreaking testnet4 From: Sjors Provoost In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2025 14:47:13 +0200 Cc: Saint Wenhao , Jameson Lopp Message-Id: <8E819BCF-EEAE-4F10-89A1-FA3FDE0F67E3@sprovoost.nl> References: <5c13e130-aaa2-4866-be26-7498100e868b@murch.one> <7c6800f0-7b77-4aca-a4f9-2506a2410b29@murch.one> <672cb527-9005-46fc-be2c-4508d39cfd7dn@googlegroups.com> To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.500.181.1.5) X-Original-Sender: sjors@sprovoost.nl X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@sprovoost.nl header.s=fm1 header.b="P7RU/QTH"; dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b=nOZ40VSi; spf=pass (google.com: domain of sjors@sprovoost.nl designates 202.12.124.153 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=sjors@sprovoost.nl; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=sprovoost.nl Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) Jameson Lopp wrote: > Encoding an "end of life date" into testnets is actually an interesting idea worth discussing. As far as I'm aware it's never been done before on any network. Keep in mind that testnet-specific code has to live right next to, even inside of, mainnet consensus code. We want the change to be as simple as possible, so as to not accidentally break mainnet. Unless and until coin expiration is something we're seriously considering for mainnet, we'd rather not implement it for testnet. This particular idea probably requires a lot of changes all over the place (consensus, mempool, wallet) because it breaks the assumption that coins don't expire. Something I've proposed in person a few times, is to double the coins every halving. In terms of code, it boils down to changing GetBlockSubsidy: CAmount nSubsidy = 50 * COIN; // Subsidy is cut in half every 210,000 blocks which will occur approximately every 4 years. If (consensusParams.inflation) { // Except on testnet5 nSubsidy <<= halvings; } else { nSubsidy >>= halvings; } This will eventually overflow, but that seems fine for a testnet. Along with the timewarp fix, the network might even grind to a halt in 2106, long before we overflow 64 bit numbers. Rust Bitcoin [0] currently refuses amounts above 21 million BTC, but they would have many years to fix that. Strong inflation has been battle tested by governments around the world for millennia as a way to discourage saving. - Sjors [0] https://github.com/rust-bitcoin/rust-bitcoin/issues/4273 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/8E819BCF-EEAE-4F10-89A1-FA3FDE0F67E3%40sprovoost.nl.