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[69.59.18.99]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 00721157ae682-71156d43a09si710547b3.0.2025.06.12.11.04.44 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 12 Jun 2025 11:04:44 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lf-lists@mattcorallo.com designates 69.59.18.99 as permitted sender) client-ip=69.59.18.99; X-DKIM-Note: Keys used to sign are likely public at X-DKIM-Note: https://as397444.net/dkim/mattcorallo.com and X-DKIM-Note: https://as397444.net/dkim/clients.mail.as397444.net X-DKIM-Note: For more info, see https://as397444.net/dkim/ Received: by mail.as397444.net with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) (Exim) (envelope-from ) id 1uPmI6-000UCx-19; Thu, 12 Jun 2025 18:04:42 +0000 Message-ID: <8d158e3d-b3cc-44b6-b71b-ab2e733c047c@mattcorallo.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2025 14:04:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Matt Corallo Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] CTV + CSFS: a letter To: Harsha Goli , Bitcoin Development Mailing List References: <46349b6c-ccec-4378-8721-aecec22752e7@mattcorallo.com> Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed X-Original-Sender: lf-lists@mattcorallo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@mattcorallo.com header.s=1749750062 header.b=CSmsBqPA; dkim=pass header.i=@clients.mail.as397444.net header.s=1749750065 header.b="gACh/8DP"; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lf-lists@mattcorallo.com designates 69.59.18.99 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=lf-lists@mattcorallo.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=REJECT dis=NONE) header.from=mattcorallo.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) On 6/11/25 8:59 PM, Harsha Goli wrote: > Quickly chiming in here. I'm digging in heavily to the different needs and drivers of businesses and > individuals in the space. I think James is being quite literal here. There is not unity on what > should happen after if we reach 2026 without any progress on covenants. > > Not speaking for James, but from what I've seen there is no substance or chatter regarding any such > "vague threat". I do think this highlights why sign-on letters tend to have little impact and are really quite useless for this kind of thing: when you actually go talk to people, you come away understanding that they have very different views on the issue at hand. Some signers appear to have intention to release an "activation client", meanwhile when I talk to other signers they're really just trying to encourage more focused research on things in this area. Those are *drastically* different views, yet both are "covered" by the same letter. Worse yet, there's now organizations signing this letter (yay NYA reprisal!), which similarly cannot possibly be filled with people with identical views (of course organizations themselves cannot opine on technical bitcoin decisions, individuals do, there is good reason why organizations do not have a role within IETF, only engineers expressing their own opinions, which may benefit their organization). Ignoring the threats in the letter, there's also a question of what the desire is - some signers specifically want CTV + CSFS now, some signers are worried about "Bitcoin's ossification" and just want to see progress on changes (in some cases even GCC making progress may suffice!), while yet others want other specific things and imagine that the politics of getting their thing will be easier once CTV + CSFS happens. These all mandate drastically different responses, yet again because they're all bunched into one letter we cannot figure out what it is that they actually want. Instead, and I've encouraged various people who've signed to do this, having engineers who wish to utilize these features speak up about what, specific, tools and protocols they wish to build using CTV + CSFS would be much more interesting. Unlike a generic "We Want Things" sign-on letter, individual messages indicating desire to utilize features is way more compelling, not just to overall impression of Bitcoin's consensus, but also to the individuals deciding what to do with their time - now you can see actual real-world desires. Matt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/8d158e3d-b3cc-44b6-b71b-ab2e733c047c%40mattcorallo.com.