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From: ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj@protonmail.com>
To: Dustin Dettmer <dustinpaystaxes@gmail.com>
Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proof-of-Stake Bitcoin Sidechains
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 10:03:25 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <8u0ExA_vvhRGzmFmxUoyqk6IBrnUEtEHAEMKzqLWLxC6IgBtvZR24jZBgeMeJlsPcjJKYgVar_rC388ZNjP09ZUkukfP1KRcL9NMDkrVrQM=@protonmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CABLeJxRmdccf2tVZ4MsdsEj6H9+NnOpp+AeMLZwYh-zTMkWJXw@mail.gmail.com>

Good morning Dustin,

> Wouldn’t a revealed private key for time locked funds create a race to spend? I imagine miners who are paying attention would have the advantage but it would still just be a race.

If Bitcoin had implemented RBF "properly" (i.e. not have the silly "opt-out" rule) then such races are won by bidding up the fees.  A random person who is not the original staker would be willing to pay miners a fee up to the entire staked amount minus dustlimit satoshis; obviously a staker would be far less willing to pay up such a fee, so the random person slashing the funds would have a major advantage in that race.
Thus the race will be won by whoever mines the highest-fee transaction.
It still becomes very unlikely that the staker will win unless the staker already has a significant mining hashpower (and if the staker has significant hashpower, then the Bitoin layer itself is at peril anyway, never mind sidechains built on top of it).

Regards,
ZmnSCPxj

>
> On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 6:14 AM ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
> > Good Morning Matt,
> >
> > > ### ZmnSCPxj,
> > >
> > > I'm intrigued by this mechanism of using fixed R values to prevent multiple signatures, but how do we derive the R values in a way where they are
> > unique for each blockheight but still can be used to create signatures or verify?
> >
> > One possibility is to derive `R` using standard hierarchical derivation.
> > Then require that the staking pubkey be revealed to the sidechain network as actually being `staking_pubkey = P + hash(P || parent_R) * G` (possibly with some trivial protection against Taproot).
> > To sign for a blockheight `h`, you must use your public key `P` and the specific `R` we get from hierarchical derivation from `parent_R` and the blockheight as index.
> >
> > Regards,
> > ZmnSCPxj
> > _______________________________________________
> > bitcoin-dev mailing list
> > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev




  reply	other threads:[~2019-01-24 10:03 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 15+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-01-18 22:59 [bitcoin-dev] Proof-of-Stake Bitcoin Sidechains Matt Bell
2019-01-19  1:42 ` ZmnSCPxj
2019-01-19  5:35   ` Matt Bell
2019-01-20  2:06     ` ZmnSCPxj
2019-01-21 18:47       ` Matt Bell
2019-01-22  9:19         ` ZmnSCPxj
2019-01-22 14:58           ` Satoshin
2019-01-22 20:03             ` Dustin Dettmer
2019-01-22 16:33           ` Dustin Dettmer
2019-01-24 10:03             ` ZmnSCPxj [this message]
2019-01-24 18:46               ` Matt Bell
2019-01-25  0:16               ` Peter Todd
2019-01-25  5:33                 ` ZmnSCPxj
2019-01-22 20:22           ` Dr Adam Back
2019-02-01  9:19 ` ZmnSCPxj

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