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[2607:fe70:0:3::d]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 98e67ed59e1d1-2b5d4eac65csi70343a91.0.2024.05.06.21.11.53 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 06 May 2024 21:11:53 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of dave@dtrt.org designates 2607:fe70:0:3::d as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:fe70:0:3::d; Received: from smtpauth.rollernet.us (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtpauth.rollernet.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A61C280087F; Mon, 6 May 2024 21:11:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.rollernet.us (webmail.rollernet.us [IPv6:2607:fe70:0:14::a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by smtpauth.rollernet.us (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Mon, 6 May 2024 21:11:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 06 May 2024 18:11:48 -1000 From: "David A. Harding" To: Andrew Poelstra Cc: Matthew Zipkin , Ethan Heilman , Bitcoin Development Mailing List Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Signing a Bitcoin Transaction with Lamport Signatures (no changes needed) In-Reply-To: References: <47711dc4ffe9d661e8321b05b6adab4e@dtrt.org> User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.4.15 Message-ID: <93b8ed39b0aa3955eb9cb99f9fc5aae9@dtrt.org> X-Sender: dave@dtrt.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed X-Rollernet-Abuse: Contact abuse@rollernet.us to report. Abuse policy: http://www.rollernet.us/policy X-Rollernet-Submit: Submit ID 2c37.6639aa04.e5e0d.0 X-Original-Sender: dave@dtrt.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of dave@dtrt.org designates 2607:fe70:0:3::d as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dave@dtrt.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) On 2024-05-06 09:06, Andrew Poelstra wrote: > You can implement ECDSA. It will just take a *lot* of opcodes. I'll accept that as a given, but how do you know that a given ECDSA signature actually commits to the transaction that contains it if OP_CHECKSIG only operates on fixed-size schnorr signatures? Is this what you're describing: if the controlling signature is a lamport signature that commits to an ECDSA signature, it's safe to disclose the private key for the ECDSA signature; when you don't have to worry about private key disclosure, it's safe to construct a schnorr signature that uses the same private key, nonce, and message commitment as the ECDSA signature; if that schnorr signature makes OP_CHECKSIG return true, then you know the message is the current transaction? That still leaves me confused. If ECDSA can be implemented within tapscript, then I would expect that schnorr could also be implemented within tapscript; that gives you an OP_CSFS equivalent. If being able to implement ECDSA in tapscript allows introspection, then I would expect implementing schnorr in tapscript would allow introspection; that gives you an OP_CAT equivalent. If you have OP_CSFS and OP_CAT, you have covenants and there's no need for lamport signatures or ECDSA. Apologies for my remaining confused in the face of something that's probably obvious, -Dave -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/93b8ed39b0aa3955eb9cb99f9fc5aae9%40dtrt.org.