From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.osuosl.org (smtp1.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::138]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D056C001B for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2021 08:26:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ECA180F27 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2021 08:26:06 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: smtp1.osuosl.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=voskuil-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from smtp1.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iZ9UfPyoUDBT for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2021 08:26:04 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 Received: from mail-qt1-x82d.google.com (mail-qt1-x82d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82d]) by smtp1.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF17F80F17 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2021 08:26:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qt1-x82d.google.com with SMTP id b4so4930746qtx.0 for ; Mon, 06 Sep 2021 01:26:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=voskuil-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=content-transfer-encoding:from:mime-version:subject:date:message-id :references:cc:in-reply-to:to; bh=Qy9aGxG6f52xT7D5/jjxtX1QtpznOFpCIHPzJkGb82w=; b=jhtt1yeF/tj/lsXGI6fI2oI6mW4gI5vngte8dAv/UxQQRrHQ5XnX+l47jSPnFsJFvC 9Yvw7WFIHrfHOfhOJlBkqRc/ts4muW63jnUvguD1+BILnZF20pzPsJVFvxpGFZ8y8aPl rBV8wyHv1hTyrGC0keJ8iE8ejTs2bEiicnffODWRcBGFEgQtviWqwPQTa8wq4OSie+tG x5yOz/Vji+CbIoqa8FAqWk4JopSMDC9Pd8OX9Ln6KSJJLZuFu0N1x5rNYr8ir83RTIlB PjX350dL2+bKKf5MkzvrbATZeoSn7ot6GUcnEEZhEA/WIII/J4WgG7gVhVFRwdKnL9zw yoJA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:content-transfer-encoding:from:mime-version :subject:date:message-id:references:cc:in-reply-to:to; bh=Qy9aGxG6f52xT7D5/jjxtX1QtpznOFpCIHPzJkGb82w=; b=f1c62jY2QCgDbFk5RYWEdpqtq+NgtUkO+ujGWN0UTaPpq+aK2SPDZ39/tgZNf4cisn jR1R7oRhE8kUIFCHpOjx0fh2D0AOxYUJ7y4+4vY8PwZQZJlNRJYWHNujkmcPjl/KCT3a hnfUwxHatEA/GwOSIfXzL+SfMVl2vSSrmNCq3616F5TXhBVZ8u2LwKwCQIy7B3jOCLht rYSGeHLYmaCDMWpVajw+3tICPehX8qAFSLWGJ6sV5uHYOtgQ2fjjAnP9OVv94uCHPouq JVS3pOqPa65DjUsCY6AO3KhTMJfHxeGJQDpPg735Is4iLeo+8SzF9oelYgwIZPuuwX7w 1HVA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532HMJNwIuvarRkJvi0HG2v8jrdQspBr45kaB939hRevQ19h1nWU 88JXWEqUezwiua1S1Z72n3X/6g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzgYd+wxCj4x08n81tL/hsARkF/S5CyCEgakkgYdm9yWW5WxQcKCf53agsE6Wt1RK6GDht9zA== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5947:: with SMTP id 7mr10080561qtz.177.1630916763496; Mon, 06 Sep 2021 01:26:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([166.172.56.210]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x23sm6018177qkn.29.2021.09.06.01.26.02 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 06 Sep 2021 01:26:03 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Eric Voskuil Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2021 10:26:00 +0200 Message-Id: <944064B6-B9CC-4325-ADA7-22B786A80A3B@voskuil.org> References: <20210906075430.hk44gaueu3njdkl3@ganymede> In-Reply-To: <20210906075430.hk44gaueu3njdkl3@ganymede> To: "David A. Harding" X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (18G82) Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion , Billy Tetrud Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Braidpool: Proposal for a decentralised mining pool X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2021 08:26:06 -0000 Switching pools has always been possible. But the largest pool is the most p= rofitable, and centralized pools are easily controlled. Decoupling selection= without decoupling payout is an engineering change without a pooling pressu= re change. e > On Sep 6, 2021, at 10:01, David A. Harding wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn Mon, Sep 06, 2021 at 09:29:01AM +0200, Eric Voskuil wrote: >> It doesn=E2=80=99t centralize payment, which ultimately controls transact= ion selection (censorship). >=20 > Yeah, but if you get paid after each share via LN and you can switch > pools instantly, then the worst case with centralized pools is that > you don't get paid for one share. If the hasher sets their share > difficulty low enough, that shouldn't be a big deal. >=20 > I'm interested in whether braidpool offers any significant benefits over > an idealized version of centralized mining with independent transaction > selection. >=20 > -Dave