From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org (smtp3.osuosl.org [140.211.166.136]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05B66C0011 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:24:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02EF960F1D for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:24:57 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.032 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.032 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: smtp3.osuosl.org (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (public key: not available)" header.d=willtech.com.au Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp3.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xJPFZ_h2pNxa for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:24:56 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 Received: from bat.birch.relay.mailchannels.net (bat.birch.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.209.13]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D06260B53 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:24:56 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: hostpapa|x-authuser|damian@willtech.com.au Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5689A6C0D85; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:24:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from s110.servername.online (unknown [127.0.0.6]) (Authenticated sender: hostpapa) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id C18976C1380; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:24:53 +0000 (UTC) ARC-Seal: i=1; s=arc-2022; d=mailchannels.net; t=1645601093; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=jxuYkW74sXJaCFVf5scosG0v86KoegwYHem8U5qBH3OypvogRhYO5jbwr7TFdRQFBiUv9l viL5T0POgObRMgQ/nAxEDJkQS3IbeUAnOyOsnS40rztsLH+aokMO8hzARt49vQPij94pvm Amuy/wZ/4xxbZPIlDYYuWklFlI97HEVmnK+koy38z9Q3AtnP2WVIwMXZ6x1gJLZ5jitM5C W9oqdGfaj6A5bGe9K7PmwqeJkiZNpkHHIEPpRd0hfOM2qvwR3+wPmZmSMGA2wI/XKNgdfZ n+UedRwDNa8/B3ZCXinEe449tAJmO4ehGDIpMsiYO50THMa45LMo1WqwjmQkJA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mailchannels.net; s=arc-2022; t=1645601093; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:dkim-signature; bh=v89Mo+qnGwAJtmIQb82ye+b8SJP+wvsKISSs0CbMerk=; b=SoSg5yTpoDJmh6BIHv7eAId7SCRoG2eNmOdpTd0t0hLDVGx3KkcY9P1H6TDTRnHW2yQcG0 1OgOBY57hKkZBHZ9sNiyA6tZlQYRo6HZHFVYVqsJ4VVAPe6+VhRQcyOLb0eM3mX97qzkOu irFeTHxT7C61gvMK7pE/QJoJrAXJmda/Spg8nN4gfvKxzR2G+9el9LdQ/oWZwfdviTC4iK Ipd5xlNngMmrKwZN5+Jk48vVRiqIpxrA3dzmrP/Ng3pA73lU+LxSZOqWQW4PCQQIPZHnWv jRnjTvb+E0QBom0fsElMQff/UBfWo9cAZeVGkYViiwEEHqikLTPb5f4Vri3jcg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; rspamd-78dc4959d8-lt8qc; auth=pass smtp.auth=hostpapa smtp.mailfrom=damian@willtech.com.au X-Sender-Id: hostpapa|x-authuser|damian@willtech.com.au Received: from s110.servername.online (s110.servername.online [204.44.192.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 100.112.55.205 (trex/6.5.3); Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:24:54 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Junk X-MailChannels-SenderId: hostpapa|x-authuser|damian@willtech.com.au X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: hostpapa X-Invention-Illegal: 6bf09adc5fc519ea_1645601094099_3643892019 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1645601094098:770577709 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1645601094098 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=willtech.com.au; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To:From:Date:MIME-Version:Sender: Reply-To:Cc:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help: List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=v89Mo+qnGwAJtmIQb82ye+b8SJP+wvsKISSs0CbMerk=; b=JB3tIKWB0z4kofuBxLTBpHBVO5 omkHDeDSofEsqd4QY7vmeRcAzu7AfZPf8bjGwUaLHisPAVRwrJLLd7kdGL38bF92X8tOrMXTPbyuH njte5qqys5A9dfCHvw9R/jumbbWFcH4zknlmBsRmjC1XV593AJIm9TxxfotzwViRYau2N9h+iPw6i SHEnILR1nhBhH2cteWo5Y3qTYvCUSs2iA8sIvURp8Xv0YUX0O0/KngV3pdvDLvJ89WjrSRYYU6xcI neVs0MjAnPrMDurOT7Z3gKVAT7oN7ydpUsebzr5o3FTK8v6R5nSotMmzFo2g4P+rxYA0vllCGGR5T KWdTxTJg==; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38778 helo=s110.servername.online) by s110.servername.online with esmtpa (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1nMm17-00HPvv-62; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 23:24:53 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 18:24:52 +1100 From: damian@willtech.com.au To: Casey Rodarmor , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion In-Reply-To: <0642a5e59464779569f9d0aab452ee27@willtech.com.au> References: <0642a5e59464779569f9d0aab452ee27@willtech.com.au> User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.4.12 Message-ID: <96471a093e3c3d9862c3d47ebe731df6@willtech.com.au> X-Sender: damian@willtech.com.au Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AuthUser: damian@willtech.com.au X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 21:48:21 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Draft-BIP: Ordinal Numbers X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:24:57 -0000 At the moment it is indisputable that a particular satoshi cannot be proven, an amount of Bitcoin is a bag of satoshi's and no-one can tell which ones are any particular ones **so even if you used the system of ordinals privately, and it might make interesting for research, I cannot see that it would be sensible to be adopted** as it can only cause trouble. If I receive some Bitcoin I cannot know if some or any of those have been at any point in the past been stolen, I assume the transaction is honest, and in all likelihood it is likely that it is. The least reasonable thing I could expect is some claimed former holder of some ordianls turning up to challenge me that it was their stolen Bitcoin was some of what I received. NACK -DA. On 2022-02-23 18:02, damian@willtech.com.au wrote: > Well done, your bip looks well presented for discussion. You say to > number each satoshi created? For a 50 BTC block reward that is > 5,000,000,000 ordinal numbers, and when some BTC is transferred to > another UTXO how do you determine which ordinal numbers, say if I > create a transaction to pay-to another UTXO. The system sounds > expensive eventually to cope with approximately 2,100,000,000,000,000 > ordinals. If I understand ordinals 0 to 5,000,000,000 as assigned to > the first Bitcoin created from mining block-reward. Say if I send some > Bitcoin to another UTXO then first-in-first-out algorithm splits those > up to assign 1 to 100,000,000 to the 1 BTC that I sent, and > 100,000,001 to 5,000,000,000 are assigned to the change plus if any > fee?-DA. > > On 2022-02-23 11:43, Casey Rodarmor via bitcoin-dev wrote: >> Briefly, newly mined satoshis are sequentially numbered in the order >> in >> which they are mined. These numbers are called "ordinal numbers" or >> "ordinals". When satoshis are spent in a transaction, the input >> satoshi >> ordinal numbers are assigned to output satoshis using a simple >> first-in-first-out algorithm.