Antoine, Perhaps it would be an idea to write a gist or some other public facing page with what you need from volunteers, so it's kind of step by step? Unlike Peter in this thread, I think most people would want/have to set up new nodes to do this. You have said: Current and default installs of Core/btcd + lnd/cln/ldk . I know that e.g. Core has some pretty non-trivial choices but I guess we can stick religiously to whatever is default. But other details like: amount in channels - does it matter? How many channels? Channels of specific types (thinking e.g. unannounced) Should volunteers have channels with each other? is there any aspect of topology you require? Network connectivity - I guess it's not important, but just in case worth mentioning, e.g. should/should not use Tor etc. Forgive me if some of the questions are ignorant, I have not paid a ton of attention to the discussion around these attacks. waxwing/AdamISZ On Thursday, October 10, 2024 at 6:29:02 PM UTC-6 Antoine Riard wrote: > Hi all, > > > If you have an on-chain donation address on the OTS website (?), I'll > make a > > $100 donation now, it's a nice tool. And for the justice > transaction...well > > for some scenarios you can use the latest valid commitment state to pin > no risk > > of being slashed by a justice transaction. > > Been late on demonstrating a real-world pinning attack against a > production lightning > node. But I swear it's real sport having to jungle with more than one > category of > exploit to soundly test. > > OTS is a great project. I'll make a donation to it of 1 gram of gold or > the equivalent > in fiats or satoshis at settlement (as $100 sounds to be almost equal to 1 > gram of gold, > i.e $84.66 those days) for each month late on doing a demonstrationg of > real-world pinning > attack, as a lateness penalty. > > Beyond it's a great tool to make notarization of any kind of digital info, > inside the > chain where for every block there are probably two-digit terawatt hours > burnt, which > starts to be a f*cking lot of hydro power plants. > > More generally, I called since late 2020 at least for making real-world > demonstration > of pinning attacks against lightning nodes, among others types of > cross-layers attacks, > At the exception of 2 ligthning protocol devs if my memory is correct, all > the others > ones since then have shunned away from participating in a real-world demo, > and Peter > Todd was the first one to consent and make available a lightning node > available for > real-world demos in a "black box" fashion (indeed, it's far easier to > execute exploits > on testing envs fully set by the researcher...). > > In the future, I believe it can only be great if bitcoin security exploits > are gauged > more or less on the lines of artifacts available, evaluated and > reproduced, as done > usually by major infosec confs. > > Best, > Antoine > ots hash: 9d227f7832154c4c8bce9fce260ac84537489c1bc8c4b8c2ba990ceb197c84fc > Le mardi 3 septembre 2024 à 21:13:46 UTC+1, Antoine Riard a écrit : > >> > That also happens to be my Alice OpenTimestamps calendar, in >> production, so >> > please don't do anything you expect to be CPU or RAM intensive. But if >> you >> > accidentally take down the server, not the end of the world: OTS is a >> very >> > redundant protocol and one calendar going down for a few hours is >> unlikely to >> > do any harm. >> > >> > It has about $400 of outgoing capacity at the moment, and $2000 >> inbound. It >> > gets hardly any donations at the moment, so if you manage to knock LND >> offline >> > that's no big deal. >> > >> > That's not my money - it's donations to the OTS calendars that I have >> no right >> > to spend - so I'll ask you to pay for any expenses incurred by it during >> > testing, and make a $100 net donation when you're done testing to make >> it >> > worthwhile for the OTS community. If you manage to lose more than that >> on >> > justice transactions, I'll consider that a donation. :) >> >> Many thanks Peter for that. >> >> No worries, I won't play with CPU or RAM, it's just all the >> transaction-relay >> and mempool logic that one can interfere with. I'll make you whole of the >> $2400 >> if the LND node goes down too hard, though I'm just looking for a node >> running >> on mainnet, for a pinning the attacker has two open to channels and >> re-balance >> the liquidity at its advantage a bit. I'll provide the liquidity by >> myself. >> >> If you have an on-chain donation address on the OTS website (?), I'll >> make a >> $100 donation now, it's a nice tool. And for the justice >> transaction...well >> for some scenarios you can use the latest valid commitment state to pin >> no risk >> of being slashed by a justice transaction. >> >> Best, >> Antoine >> ots hash: 19d9b61ed5238e2922205a0a0194e0830b260a691f45b4189b1d145f72c9e031 >> >> Le mar. 3 sept. 2024 à 13:58, Peter Todd a écrit : >> >>> On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 02:10:15PM -0700, Antoine Riard wrote: >>> > My utmost pleasure to demonstrate some pinning attacks on nodes under >>> > real-world conditions. >>> >>> Antoine Riard: until Oct 1st, you have permission to test your attacks >>> against >>> my Lightning node running at: >>> >>> 023345274dd80a01c0e80ec4892818878...@alice.opentimestamps.org:9735 >>> >>> >>> That also happens to be my Alice OpenTimestamps calendar, in production, >>> so >>> please don't do anything you expect to be CPU or RAM intensive. But if >>> you >>> accidentally take down the server, not the end of the world: OTS is a >>> very >>> redundant protocol and one calendar going down for a few hours is >>> unlikely to >>> do any harm. >>> >>> It has about $400 of outgoing capacity at the moment, and $2000 inbound. >>> It >>> gets hardly any donations at the moment, so if you manage to knock LND >>> offline >>> that's no big deal. >>> >>> That's not my money - it's donations to the OTS calendars that I have no >>> right >>> to spend - so I'll ask you to pay for any expenses incurred by it during >>> testing, and make a $100 net donation when you're done testing to make it >>> worthwhile for the OTS community. If you manage to lose more than that on >>> justice transactions, I'll consider that a donation. :) >>> >>> -- >>> https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org >>> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. 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