From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AA038B16 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 09:06:19 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (relay4-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.196]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C515E12A for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 09:06:17 +0000 (UTC) X-Originating-IP: 193.248.203.237 Received: from [192.168.101.199] (LPuteaux-657-1-144-237.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.248.203.237]) (Authenticated sender: thomasv@electrum.org) by relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 394691720ED for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 11:06:16 +0200 (CEST) To: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org References: From: Thomas Voegtlin Message-ID: <99643f72-f72f-e4e9-ac2b-72bf519c25b5@electrum.org> Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 11:06:15 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=disabled version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proposal: Extended serialization format for BIP-32 X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 09:06:19 -0000 On 09.09.2017 16:08, shiva sitamraju via bitcoin-dev wrote: > Hi, > > I understand the motivation of adding the birthdate field. However, not > very comfortable with having this in the public key serialization. There > are privacy implication of both the birthday field and having the complete > derivation path, which takes space. > > I am fine with Thomas proposal of {x,y,z}. Having additional version byte > field looks modular but since since we already have the big enough version > field in bip32, better to use that instead of adding more bytes. > > Thomas, can you please explain why we require different version for P2WPKH > or P2WSH versus (P2WPKH or P2WSH) nested in P2SH. It looked to me that they > would have the same output bitcoin address and under same account. no, native scripts do not have the same address. see bip173 > > On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 2:09 AM, < > bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > >> Send bitcoin-dev mailing list submissions to >> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> bitcoin-dev-owner@lists.linuxfoundation.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of bitcoin-dev digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Proposal: Extended serialization format for BIP-32 >> wallets (Andreas Schildbach) >> 2. Re: Proposal: Extended serialization format for BIP-32 >> wallets (Pavol Rusnak) >> 3. Re: Fast Merkle Trees (Mark Friedenbach) >> 4. Re: Proposal: Extended serialization format for BIP-32 >> wallets (Thomas Voegtlin) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2017 21:35:49 +0200 >> From: Andreas Schildbach >> To: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >> Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proposal: Extended serialization format for >> BIP-32 wallets >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> >> On 09/07/2017 06:23 PM, Pavol Rusnak via bitcoin-dev wrote: >>> On 07/09/17 06:29, Thomas Voegtlin via bitcoin-dev wrote: >>>> A solution is still needed to wallets who do not wish to use BIP43 >>> >>> What if we added another byte field OutputType for wallets that do not >>> follow BIP43? >>> >>> 0x00 - P2PKH output type >>> 0x01 - P2WPKH-in-P2SH output type >>> 0x02 - native Segwit output type >>> >>> Would that work for you? >> >> I think that would work. >> >>> The question is whether this field should be present only if depth==0x00 >>> or at all times. What is your suggestion, Thomas? >> >> In case of Bitcoin Wallet, the depth is not null (m/0'/[0,1]) and still >> we need this field. I think it should always be present if a chain is >> limited to a certain script type. >> >> There is however the case where even on one chain, script types are >> mixed. In this case the field should be omitted and the wallet needs to >> scan for all (known) types. Afaik Bitcoin Core is taking this path. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2017 22:00:05 +0200 >> From: Pavol Rusnak >> To: Andreas Schildbach , Bitcoin Protocol >> Discussion >> Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proposal: Extended serialization format for >> BIP-32 wallets >> Message-ID: <40ed03a1-915c-33b0-c4ac-e898c8c733ba@satoshilabs.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 >> >> On 07/09/17 21:35, Andreas Schildbach via bitcoin-dev wrote: >>> In case of Bitcoin Wallet, the depth is not null (m/0'/[0,1]) and still >>> we need this field. >> >> But the depth of exported public key will be null. It does not make >> sense to export xpub for m or m/0' for your particular case. >> >>> I think it should always be present if a chain is >>> limited to a certain script type. >> >> I am fine with having the path there all the time. >> >>> There is however the case where even on one chain, script types are >>> mixed. In this case the field should be omitted and the wallet needs to >>> scan for all (known) types. Afaik Bitcoin Core is taking this path. >> >> Is that really the case? Why come up with a hierarchy and then don't use >> it? >> >> -- >> Best Regards / S pozdravom, >> >> Pavol "stick" Rusnak >> CTO, SatoshiLabs >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2017 13:04:30 -0700 >> From: Mark Friedenbach >> To: Russell O'Connor >> Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Fast Merkle Trees >> Message-ID: <40D6F502-3380-4B64-BCD9-80D361EED35C@friedenbach.org> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> TL;DR I'll be updating the fast Merkle-tree spec to use a different >> IV, using (for infrastructure compatability reasons) the scheme >> provided by Peter Todd. >> >> This is a specific instance of a general problem where you cannot >> trust scripts given to you by another party. Notice that we run into >> the same sort of problem when doing key aggregation, in which you must >> require the other party to prove knowledge of the discrete log before >> using their public key, or else key cancellation can occur. >> >> With script it is a little bit more complicated as you might want >> zero-knowledge proofs of hash pre-images for HTLCs as well as proofs >> of DL knowledge (signatures), but the basic idea is the same. Multi- >> party wallet level protocols for jointly constructing scriptPubKeys >> should require a 'delinearization' step that proves knowledge of >> information necessary to complete each part of the script, as part of >> proving the safety of a construct. >> >> I think my hangup before in understanding the attack you describe was >> in actualizing it into a practical attack that actually escalates the >> attacker's capabilities. If the attacker can get you to agree to a >> MAST policy that is nothing more than a CHECKSIG over a key they >> presumably control, then they don't need to do any complicated >> grinding. The attacker in that scenario would just actually specify a >> key they control and take the funds that way. >> >> Where this presumably leads to an actual exploit is when you specify a >> script that a curious counter-party actually takes the time to >> investigate and believes to be secure. For example, a script that >> requires a signature or pre-image revelation from that counter-party. >> That would require grinding not a few bytes, but at minimum 20-33 >> bytes for either a HASH160 image or the counter-party's key. >> >> If I understand the revised attack description correctly, then there >> is a small window in which the attacker can create a script less than >> 55 bytes in length, where nearly all of the first 32 bytes are >> selected by the attacker, yet nevertheless the script seems safe to >> the counter-party. The smallest such script I was able to construct >> was the following: >> >> CHECKSIGVERIFY HASH160 EQUAL >> >> This is 56 bytes and requires only 7 bits of grinding in the fake >> pubkey. But 56 bytes is too large. Switching to secp256k1 serialized >> 32-byte pubkeys (in a script version upgrade, for example) would >> reduce this to the necessary 55 bytes with 0 bits of grinding. A >> smaller variant is possible: >> >> DUP HASH160 EQUALVERIFY CHECKSIGVERIFY HASH160 >> EQUAL >> >> This is 46 bytes, but requires grinding 96 bits, which is a bit less >> plausible. >> >> Belts and suspenders are not so terrible together, however, and I >> think there is enough of a justification here to look into modifying >> the scheme to use a different IV for hash tree updates. This would >> prevent even the above implausible attacks. >> >> >>> On Sep 7, 2017, at 11:55 AM, Russell O'Connor >> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 1:42 PM, Mark Friedenbach > > wrote: >>> I've been puzzling over your email since receiving it. I'm not sure it >>> is possible to perform the attack you describe with the tree structure >>> specified in the BIP. If I may rephrase your attack, I believe you are >>> seeking a solution to the following: >>> >>> Want: An innocuous script and a malign script for which >>> >>> double-SHA256(innocuous) >>> >>> is equal to either >>> >>> fast-SHA256(double-SHA256(malign) || r) or >>> fast-SHA256(r || double-SHA256(malign)) >>> >>> or fast-SHA256(fast-SHA256(double-SHA256(malign) || r1) || r0) >>> or fast-SHA256(fast-SHA256(r1 || double-SHA256(malign)) || r0) >>> or ... >>> >>> where r is a freely chosen 32-byte nonce. This would allow the >>> attacker to reveal the innocuous script before funds are sent to the >>> MAST, then use the malign script to spend. >>> >>> Because of the double-SHA256 construction I do not see how this can be >>> accomplished without a full break of SHA256. >>> >>> The particular scenario I'm imagining is a collision between >>> >>> double-SHA256(innocuous) >>> >>> and >>> >>> fast-SHA256(fast-SHA256(fast-SHA256(double-SHA256(malign) || r2) || >> r1) || r0). >>> >>> where innocuous is a Bitcoin Script that is between 32 and 55 bytes long. >>> >>> Observe that when data is less than 55 bytes then double-SHA256(data) = >> fast-SHA256(fast-SHA256(padding-SHA256(data)) || 0x8000...100) (which is >> really the crux of the matter). >>> >>> Therefore, to get our collision it suffices to find a collision between >>> >>> padding-SHA256(innocuous) >>> >>> and >>> >>> fast-SHA256(double-SHA256(malign) || r2) || r1 >>> >>> r1 can freely be set to the second half of padding-SHA256(innocuous), so >> it suffices to find a collision between >>> >>> fast-SHA256(double-SHA256(malign) || r2) >>> >>> and the first half of padding-SHA256(innocuous) which is equal to the >> first 32 bytes of innocuous. >>> >>> Imagine the first opcode of innocuous is the push of a value that the >> attacker claims to be his 33-byte public key. >>> So long as the attacker doesn't need to prove that they know the >> discrete log of this pubkey, they can grind r2 until the result of >> fast-SHA256(double-SHA256(malign) || r2) contains the correct first >> couple of bytes for the script header and the opcode for a 33-byte push. I >> believe that is only about 3 or 4 bytes of they need to grind out. >>> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: > attachments/20170907/63af0292/attachment-0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2017 22:39:17 +0200 >> From: Thomas Voegtlin >> To: "bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" >> >> Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proposal: Extended serialization format for >> BIP-32 wallets >> Message-ID: <9e74dc17-105c-b43c-7780-4fa690043fe2@electrum.org> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 >> >> >> >> On 07.09.2017 18:23, Pavol Rusnak wrote: >>> On 07/09/17 06:29, Thomas Voegtlin via bitcoin-dev wrote: >>>> A solution is still needed to wallets who do not wish to use BIP43 >>> >>> What if we added another byte field OutputType for wallets that do not >>> follow BIP43? >>> >>> 0x00 - P2PKH output type >>> 0x01 - P2WPKH-in-P2SH output type >>> 0x02 - native Segwit output type >>> >>> Would that work for you? >>> >>> The question is whether this field should be present only if depth==0x00 >>> or at all times. What is your suggestion, Thomas? >>> >> >> >> well, in my initial proposal, I wrote that this value should be user >> visible. That is why I used version bytes. If you create an extra byte >> field, and then use base58 or bech32 encoding, the value will not be >> user visible anymore. >> >> The initial implementation of segwit xpub/xprv in Electrum used a flag >> that was not user visible (I added 1 to the bip32 version bytes, which >> leaves the xpub/xprv prefix unchanged). I have experimented with that >> invisible flag for more than 6 months now, and I am now convinced that >> it is better to make that flag user visible. >> >> The reason is that when users create wallets with multisig scripts, they >> need to combine several master public keys. However, these master public >> keys should all be of the same type: it would not make sense to create a >> 2 of 3 multisig wallet with a one xpub, one ypub and one zpub. By >> imposing that all master keys are of the same type, we ensure that all >> cosigners agree on the script type that will be used to derive addresses. >> >> In other words, if users are exposed to master keys and need to >> manipulate them, it is better to let them see what they are doing. >> >> OTOH if you do not plan to expose your users to these keys, you probably >> do not need a serialization format. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> bitcoin-dev mailing list >> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >> >> >> End of bitcoin-dev Digest, Vol 28, Issue 17 >> ******************************************* >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > -- Electrum Technologies GmbH / Waldemarstr 37a / 10999 Berlin / Germany Sitz, Registergericht: Berlin, Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 164636 Geschäftsführer: Thomas Voegtlin