From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org (smtp4.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::137]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30BB2C000E for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2021 05:20:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 249D44032C for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2021 05:20:17 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_LOCAL_NOVOWEL=0.5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: smtp4.osuosl.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=protonmail.com Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp4.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id chqTkv9dqzR9 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2021 05:20:15 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 Received: from mail-4324.protonmail.ch (mail-4324.protonmail.ch [185.70.43.24]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9AB7040310 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 2021 05:20:15 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2021 05:20:08 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail; t=1624857612; bh=NcQ48m9+zZ/LiI0Y/XVDZ7qY/O7qZSSwmMTTENNPwZs=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=ndjcDj/EFyBkAH0MwP06i2srk+sRhPhvHSRPNj0RqjVJraSQMnJiG2fY/IOjfBDNe zgv/eEK3novteMmqYeWo7xObp62m25Jpg8+WsqWbkXn1mFH03b5rKcGuAEWTtPF8NE qmv07CDARlKr/wonbpiIfR9v5ZjLvRyuV3QlP5+Q= To: "raymo@riseup.net" From: ZmnSCPxj Reply-To: ZmnSCPxj Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <6leV9mViysrSOipJqrCM3wbqBOMO2gWI3BuEn0VKmaDf7GpawWyUIWLu-ddypMri7YeVmw94HNSaQYYp8fIkjZ0S3OtFTPQa6h9pkLprKDI=@protonmail.com> <9c2cec326adee1f4d4152e2195da0e7b@riseup.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Boost Bitcoin circulation, Million Transactions Per Second with stronger privacy X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2021 05:20:17 -0000 Good morning Raymo, > > It looks you already missed the entire design of Sabu and its > restrictions. First of all, the Gazin wallet always controls the Sabu > restrictions for every transaction in order to consider it as a valid > transaction in a valid deal. That is, the creditor wallet controls the > MT and GT in first place. Stop right there. >From the above, what I get is, "trust the Gazin wallet". Thus, the suggestion to just use Coinbase. At least it has existed longer and has more current users that trust it, ra= ther than this Gazin thing. Is Gazin open-source? * If Gazin is open-source, I could download the source code, make a local c= opy that gives me a separate copy of the keys, and use the keys to sign any= transaction I want. * If Gazin is not open-source, then why should I trust the Gazin wallet unt= il my incoming funds to an open-source wallet I control have been confirmed= deeply? Lightning is still superior because: * It can be open-sourced completely and even though I have keys to my oncha= in funds, I *still* cannot steal the funds of my counterparty. * Even if I connect my open-source node to a node with a closed-source impl= ementation, I know I can rely on receives from that node without waiting fo= r the transaction to be confirmed deeply. All the benefits your scheme claims, are derived from the trust assumption,= which is uninteresting, we already have those, they are called custodial w= allets. Lightning allows for non-custodiality while achieving high global TPS and l= ow fees. And a central idea of Lightning is the requirement to use an n-of-n to form= smaller sub-moneys from the global money. Regards, ZmnSCPxj