wrote: >> Is there a way to experiment with new features - eg committed coins - tha= t >> doesnt involve an altcoin in the conventional sense, and also doesnt impo= se >> a big testing burden on bitcoin main which is a security and testing risk= ? >>=20 >> eg lets say some form of merged mine where an alt-coin lets call it >> bitcoin-staging? where the coins are the same coins as on bitcoin, the >> mining power goes to bitcoin main, so some aspect of merged mining, but n= o >> native mining. and ability to use bitcoins by locking them on bitcoin to= >> move them to bitcoin-staging and vice versa (ie exchange them 1:1 >> cryptographically, no exchange). >>=20 >> Did anyone figure anything like that out? Seems vaguely doable and >> maybe productive. The only people with coins at risk of defects in a new= >> feature, or insufficiently well tested novel feature are people with coin= s >> on bitcoin-staging. >>=20 >> Yes I know about bitcoin-test this is not it. I mean a real live system,= >> with live value, but that is intentionally wanting to avoid forking bitco= ins >> parameters, nor value, nor mindshare dillution. In this way something >> potentially interesting could move forward faster, and be les risky to th= e >> main bitcoin network. eg particularly defenses against >>=20 >> It might also be a more real world test test (after bitcoin-test) because= >> some parameters are different on test, and some issues may not manifest >> without more real activity. >>=20 >> Then also bitcoin could cherry pick interesting patches and merge them af= ter >> extensive real-world validation with real-money at stake (by early >> adopters). >=20 > Interesting idea. I wonder if ripple could be used to set up a transfer s= ystem between the 'main' and 'staging' systems ... > =20 >>=20 >> Adam >>=20 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- >> AlienVault Unified Security Management (USM) platform delivers complete >> security visibility with the essential security capabilities. Easily and >> efficiently configure, manage, and operate all of your security controls >> from a single console and one unified framework. Download a free trial. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/alienvault_d2d >> _______________________________________________ >> Bitcoin-development mailing list >> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >=20 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- > This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: >=20 > Build for Windows Store. >=20 > http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development --Apple-Mail-1EBB5071-020E-4101-985C-E4D86424CF68 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Why use ripple and not just use the te= stnet?

The advantageous of allowing testnet t= o be used as an alt-coin are That Non standard transactions can be test= ed in a pseudo live environment where because the coins have some nominal va= lue people are incentivized to try and steal and come up with clever ways of= gamin the system. This sort of knowledge would be invaluable if non standar= d transactions are ever going to become a reality on main net.

It also allows developers a chance to develop in advance n= ew technologies and services that currently won't run on bitcoin main net bu= t might be enabled in the future at which point they can switch over to main= net. Additionally without any development happening with non standard trans= actions as currently there is no economic incentive , there might be a stron= g argument to never bother enabling non standard transactions as the risk of= doing so might not justify in many people's minds the benefits as if n= o one develops anything in advance most users might not find the theor= etical possibilities worth the risk, thus permanently hobbling the full pote= ntial of satoshis idea. Rather if testnet were allowed to act as an alt coin= something cool might be developed that the main net users might desire enou= gh to overcome the inertia of the status quo.

Additionally it should be considered that the time in the future when non s= tandard transactions might be enabled might be so far in the future wh= en bitcoin has hit mass adoption and changing anything might require far mor= e political negotiations between users and devs then currently. Meaning that= perhaps much more proof of functionality and value as well as testing might= e required.

Dennison

Sent from= my iPhone

On Jun 15, 2013, at 1:18 PM, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com> w= rote:

On 19 May 2013 15:23= , Adam Back <adam@cypherspace.org> wrote:

Is there a way to experiment with new features= - eg committed coins - that
doesnt involve an altcoin in the conventional sense, and also doesnt impose<= br> a big testing burden on bitcoin main which is a security and testing risk?
eg lets say some form of merged mine where an alt-coin lets call it
bitcoin-staging? where the coins are the same coins as on bitcoin, the=
mining power goes to bitcoin main, so some aspect of merged mining, but no native mining. and ability to use bitcoins by locking them on bitcoin t= o
move them to bitcoin-staging and vice versa (ie exchange them 1:1
cryptographically, no exchange).

Did anyone figure anything like that out? Seems vaguely doable and
= maybe productive. The only people with coins at risk of defects in a n= ew
feature, or insufficiently well tested novel feature are people with coins on bitcoin-staging.

Yes I know about bitcoin-test this is not it. I mean a real live syste= m,
with live value, but that is intentionally wanting to avoid forking bitcoins=
parameters, nor value, nor mindshare dillution. In this way something<= br> potentially interesting could move forward faster, and be les risky to the main bitcoin network. eg particularly defenses against

It might also be a more real world test test (after bitcoin-test) because some parameters are different on test, and some issues may not manifest
without more real activity.

Then also bitcoin could cherry pick interesting patches and merge them after=
extensive real-world validation with real-money at stake (by early
adopters).

Interesting idea. I won= der if ripple could be used to set up a transfer system between the 'main' a= nd 'staging' systems ...

Adam

----------------------------------------------------------------------------= --
AlienVault Unified Security Management (USM) platform delivers complete
security visibility with the essential security capabilities. Easily and
= efficiently configure, manage, and operate all of your security controls
= from a single console and one unified framework. Download a free trial.
http://p.sf= .net/sfu/alienvault_d2d
_______________________________________________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-develop= ment@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-deve= lopment

--------------------= ----------------------------------------------------------
T= his SF.net email is sponsored by Windows:

Build for Windows Store.

http://p.sf.net/s= fu/windows-dev2dev

_______________________________________________
Bit= coin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net=
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-devel= opment

= --Apple-Mail-1EBB5071-020E-4101-985C-E4D86424CF68--