From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Yg6QD-00036Z-O3 for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 09 Apr 2015 06:58:41 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of coinbase.com designates 209.85.220.181 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.181; envelope-from=adrian@coinbase.com; helo=mail-qk0-f181.google.com; Received: from mail-qk0-f181.google.com ([209.85.220.181]) by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1Yg6QC-0006Qr-Ej for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 09 Apr 2015 06:58:41 +0000 Received: by qkgx75 with SMTP id x75so113198127qkg.1 for ; Wed, 08 Apr 2015 23:58:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:mime-version:content-type:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references:to; bh=ksuWw+6CWyFgcAXXE8eTWK6MX8y2DRIbBjxMBgEdEf4=; b=FP8eJWvkbwOnwHc8eIAdNJIcN9DJkIPIhkbsCxF+ArK1ELwVzb9y/DmMCFGEHNjnow vcVGIY8+mQZFoN3bgEZ3iYSSLKrpSY3GbI2QWYxcyLnhyktDbY+dBJdybEZ08actF0J7 lUFHtz3LVnyOhXzmJrsguB9qSXrfRASjjep2Gtrk6Do7wT3Zrs0PDAueTdg/G20RDxeB baQ4pCB/wD8P3GoEDWEn2wWWh0mYqiVfqk4tNdBBt72k2RgpTQ4kcsYJ2bnflqzLDyAj KKBe0p9ub220rc8PSAMFJgPDdRsYBYR9GGo00J5aWkIyAeFypj0ychdm0usVt4A7dQWa TcUw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlhMVqxjA4LJI52e3s/sNPi9DtK9DPo1hKKkuPG7rKmj+6l7IuI6qNBcuIB+P0+mDNlkq6d X-Received: by 10.140.80.176 with SMTP id c45mr33668796qgd.101.1428560892364; Wed, 08 Apr 2015 23:28:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ip-10-8-0-178.ec2.internal (ec2-54-86-177-31.compute-1.amazonaws.com. [54.86.177.31]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id w48sm9178911qgd.17.2015.04.08.23.28.10 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 08 Apr 2015 23:28:11 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2070.6\)) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_FB5F9D5D-7EFC-4959-B6BE-52A4736A67E1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 2.5b6 From: Adrian Macneil In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 23:28:08 -0700 Message-Id: References: To: Peter Todd X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2070.6) X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1Yg6QC-0006Qr-Ej Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Double spending and replace by fee X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 06:58:41 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_FB5F9D5D-7EFC-4959-B6BE-52A4736A67E1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Fwiw, Coinbase relies on the current first-seen mempool behaviour. Wide = adoption of RBF (without a suitable replacement available) would make it = extremely difficult to pitch bitcoin as a viable alternative to credit = cards payments to large merchants. Adrian > On Mar 28, 2015, at 7:22 AM, Peter Todd wrote: >=20 > Signed PGP part > Would you so us all a favor and make a list of companies *actually* = relying on "first-seen" mempool behaviour. Because I've been having a = hard time actually finding anyone who does who hasn't given up on it. = Not very useful to talk about attacks against hypothetical defences. >=20 > On 28 March 2015 09:58:53 GMT-04:00, Mike Hearn = wrote: > >I've written a couple of blog posts on replace by fee and double > >spending > >mitigations. They sum up the last few years (!) worth of discussions = on > >this list and elsewhere, from my own perspective. > > > >I make no claim to be comprehensive or unbiased but I keep being = asked > >about these topics so figured I'd just write up my thoughts once so I > >can > >send links instead of answers :) And then so can anyone who happens = to > >agree. > > > >(1) Replace by fee scorched earth, a counter argument: > > > >https://medium.com/@octskyward/replace-by-fee-43edd9a1dd6d > > > >This article lays out the case against RBF-SE and argues it is = harmful > >to > >Bitcoin. > > > >(2) Double spending and how to make it harder: > > > = >https://medium.com/@octskyward/double-spending-in-bitcoin-be0f1d1e8008 > > > >This article summarises a couple of double spending incidents against > >merchants and then discusses the following techniques: > > > > 1. Risk analysis of transactions > > 2. Payment channels > > 3. Countersigning by a trusted third party > > 4. Remote attestation > > 5. ID verification > > 6. Waiting for confirmations > > 7. Punishment of double spending blocks > > > >I hope the material is useful / interesting. > > > > > = >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > = >-------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- > >Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, > >sponsored > >by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your = hub > >for all > >things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership > >blogs to > >news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join > >the > >conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ > > > = >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Bitcoin-development mailing list > >Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >=20 >=20 >=20 > = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- > Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, = sponsored > by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub = for all > things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership = blogs to > news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join = the > conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development --Apple-Mail=_FB5F9D5D-7EFC-4959-B6BE-52A4736A67E1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJVJhv4AAoJEK1XFTEcMAFMxloP/Av1PcKD2xbBp1HcUCo7dx+p 36mhth1l4aiMdWwAqmtW9aSph9tn3ROfweIJoZmonVJjT1IdRemHQ0shi81/+oPB B5lLERc8Flx91BLRf2dsTmg3rd/2nvrCzbu1IncxsEZJTMadMO24MKC7ZWoBolAq XNGobflIVY8sLmVwHk+n5905HaFZ3einuYTkAA1oliCLlbmWvOv+yI/RP3kTwRil 0kj36wDyRtsCTMvsbl+7sytD0aI4Lve9osIOfWN+MmK2cZNItHS+pnUJd5VSJ7+6 0KN/mEG/JFanoXYodrz0cu1sbR/lAjKIul8WTR5xMDsKlS/FSJW4dXDJrzw/IDpL h1n9En6VwL7+UjwfJOLwFNe2AsHjkAhxsc/xSKxkNTVS20NBJOYg2XegXd5hEUlQ /dJGg0OLTQ6xLW1NIz2M5ayRekTsH1YurKwYkE8+eR5JpQNuSpDr0LRtLNc8/V59 Di9l2gvCjMTuDvEftN9dNjWl3t7XPVG16ZhKb4CpKAeD0nyQc1hWfwLpV65h6pxC colpcgjbzqVJsA1SLaCUXQpUZPfPJDn8LwtrtCD/rP0kRq0QQshEsXyB3MhptdSs aGvjk+XNBQGmhQKW8pxzmETiAtzOnhWxXI6LEQRD8Bm7VlBlawgZWCV4uhZxwg6g JM7lw3dnHOv0+IkmlqXa =eCJC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_FB5F9D5D-7EFC-4959-B6BE-52A4736A67E1--