From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Ubxdg-0004Y0-LR for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Mon, 13 May 2013 18:38:24 +0000 X-ACL-Warn: Received: from mail-pb0-f50.google.com ([209.85.160.50]) by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1Ubxdd-000369-GY for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Mon, 13 May 2013 18:38:24 +0000 Received: by mail-pb0-f50.google.com with SMTP id um15so4656906pbc.9 for ; Mon, 13 May 2013 11:38:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=P605P3X/HrqrqZDoFA50yMBZEn0rmubh61zUzQn4EMY=; b=OYIBYG/4kEujk9nr87D62P4xNTc8eeAfszW9KvthlvCKBWmH+XYgpVALW1F3Xxeuum MdO0SsEn37tzfvpqHWYHm1tskOk1yn4zbwX2h49cqGGuAOBHpXzltP2t87r4F6Y2IpT9 flEkAmYdZZBPQnRXOcEtC9IOw2vfndKEAR3xEr6XZ1SA9ZvdGzhPsi1GlCNXYd09k5RR UrdH//ZtAWK0ShJiqAiECrJKZxlmcaSzWVefBJf7Av6DjrTteBKqYTQzKxEXr8b/yA9X cinNii48cCf/9fbjSSgEiTe6gSYVu22piX4BGxjnUQ+n6OaKlqGyO+KAvt3mZ+G/Z90M Edrw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.66.26.47 with SMTP id i15mr30785353pag.98.1368470295652; Mon, 13 May 2013 11:38:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.240.106 with HTTP; Mon, 13 May 2013 11:38:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [99.43.178.25] In-Reply-To: <20130513105408.GB3393@netbook.cypherspace.org> References: <20130511045342.GA28588@petertodd.org> <20130511102209.GA27823@netbook.cypherspace.org> <20130513105408.GB3393@netbook.cypherspace.org> Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 14:38:15 -0400 Message-ID: From: Jeff Garzik To: Adam Back Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmrBwrIyWIrf9UwQ6/b/AhxTMGF4S9K9dBuZcCp/tAk/jJabhWD0pFP/Ee98i3f/pELAhKH X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. X-Headers-End: 1Ubxdd-000369-GY Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] merged mining hashcash & bitcoin (Re: Coinbase TxOut Hashcash) X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 18:38:24 -0000 On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 6:54 AM, Adam Back wrote: > On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 07:31:21AM +0000, John Dillon wrote: >>[with] merge-mining [you get] more value from just one unit of work. > > correct. > >>But Peter's coinbase hashcash protocol carefully ensures [...] the amount >>of value the miner would have then given away in a "anyone-can-spend" >>output. > > I think there are 3 choices: > > 1. merged-mine (almost zero incremental cost as the bitcoin mining return is > still earned) > > 2. destroy bitcoin (hash of public key is all 00s so no computible private > key) > > 3. anyone-can-spend (= first to spend gets coin?) Don't forget: 4. destroy-via-miner-fee, which is useful because it provides funding for a public service (bitcoin transaction verification). (a tangent, but related) I've been thinking about a decentralized way to create an anonymous identity, something I think it key to any number of decentralized, P2P and anonymous markets. My main focus, for this identity project, is to develop a decentralized protocol for generating a UUID-like unique identifier (bitstring), in a way that has some amount of creation cost attached (to prevent creating a billion of such tokens etc.). I call it a system identifier, or SIN. Once you have a SIN, you may associate the SIN with a GPG fingerprint, email address, real name, login credentials, etc. eBay-like marketplaces publish SIN ratings (though it displays on screen as "jgarzik" not "1234-abcd-5678-def0"). Standard-and-Poors style ratings agencies would similarly rate a business's SIN. SIN's build a reputation and trust over time, while controlling their own anonymity (or lack thereof). Anybody may abandon a SIN at any time. Ownership of a SIN is cryptographically proven via digital signature. Getting back on topic, somewhat, one idea I had for creation cost of a SIN was associating the creation cost of a SIN with a bitcoin transaction's miner fee. Anybody in the world could, therefore, create a SIN in a decentralized fashion, simply by following a published protocol for burning a specified amount of bitcoins via miner fee. It can be cryptographically proven with 100% certainty who made such a transaction, and the miner fee attaches a creation cost to ensure that SINs are not -too- cheap. Burn-via-miner-fee is a useful tool outside of this example. It funds a public service, providing a positive feedback loop for miners who receive fees via such services. -- Jeff Garzik exMULTI, Inc. jgarzik@exmulti.com