From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1YrYRx-0005rF-Iy for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sun, 10 May 2015 21:07:49 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com designates 209.85.213.182 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.213.182; envelope-from=gmaxwell@gmail.com; helo=mail-ig0-f182.google.com; Received: from mail-ig0-f182.google.com ([209.85.213.182]) by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1YrYRw-0003cD-TL for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sun, 10 May 2015 21:07:49 +0000 Received: by igbsb11 with SMTP id sb11so56287144igb.0 for ; Sun, 10 May 2015 14:07:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.7.87 with SMTP id 84mr9358136ioh.76.1431292063670; Sun, 10 May 2015 14:07:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.107.15.82 with HTTP; Sun, 10 May 2015 14:07:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <554FC36C.80402@certimix.com> References: <554FC36C.80402@certimix.com> Date: Sun, 10 May 2015 21:07:43 +0000 Message-ID: From: Gregory Maxwell To: Sergio Lerner Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (gmaxwell[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature 0.0 AWL AWL: Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address X-Headers-End: 1YrYRw-0003cD-TL Cc: "bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] A way to create a fee market even without a block size limit (2013) X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 May 2015 21:07:49 -0000 On Sun, May 10, 2015 at 8:45 PM, Sergio Lerner wrote: > Can the system by gamed? Users can pay fees or a portion of fees out of band to miner(s); this is undetectable to the network. It's also behavior that miners have engaged in since at least 2011 (in two forms; treating transactions that paid them directly via outputs as having that much more in fees; and taking contracts for fast processing for identified transactions (e.g. address matching or via an API) e.g. "I'll pay you x at the end of the month for each of my transactions you process, you can poll this API". I'm aware of at least two companies having had this arrangement with miners). I think what you suggested then just further rewards this behavior as it allows bypassing your controls.-- I suspect generally any scheme the looks at the fee values has this property.