From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6538192B for ; Sat, 14 Nov 2015 00:29:52 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-io0-f174.google.com (mail-io0-f174.google.com [209.85.223.174]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE2E4155 for ; Sat, 14 Nov 2015 00:29:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ioc74 with SMTP id 74so113537636ioc.2 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 16:29:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=4WbcocyAEY5q8yoM1H1+UGMOKqxMODydk/iyzvhnQ2I=; b=bva1uI8hPIwlyRoFGlS1fFGKXnLNEFl8yh4awXPB16dST/3QgksvmAAwiAuZzENuL5 hUlbHPalZWw+AhpxBp+OEeKTQ/VhMmJKtHtmCT8GXfytfL36LRNQuu51K6Wq8A8mJEAF Y5j6Rp9jiK8Kao6fAOAgUkBeHcnRch5u1tLOtmsIk3TyKeP400MhZQgK5ClkISzthAEd Q5fZ02lR/Dfp2/DvVZb5idmb6+4aVZZhzlJq9140V9p8WXxRfzaRyC0Dq25oem7BvIa0 j0gd5/bgvc11eKh7AgJjHCEIWyr4IdNgiPE5VcBa4KQTlfTTOZfsJyrUNUL3hXNqCjz6 6SDw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.10.199 with SMTP id 68mr22654887iok.75.1447460991317; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 16:29:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.107.192.199 with HTTP; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 16:29:51 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <1581446.3ZPnhFUSFq@1337h4x0r> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2015 00:29:51 +0000 Message-ID: From: Gregory Maxwell To: Jeff Garzik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: Bitcoin development mailing list Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Contradiction in BIP65 text? X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2015 00:29:52 -0000 On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 11:58 PM, Jeff Garzik via bitcoin-dev wrote: > On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 4:48 PM, xor via bitcoin-dev > wrote: >> >> This clearly says that funds can be frozen. >> Can the BIP65-thing be used to freeze funds or can it not be? > This language definitely trips up or worries several folks - it's been > mentioned a few times before. > > The user _chooses_ to freeze _their own_ funds. It is not an unwilling act > of force, which many assume when they see the phrase "freeze funds." The most frequent related point of confusion I see is that people have a dangerously wrong mental model of how scrpitpubkeys work. It seems people think that wallets will infer whatever they can possibly spend and display that. This is not how wallets work, and if any wallet were ever created like that its users would immediately go broke (and it's author should be taken out and shot. :) ). Rather, wallets must only display funds paid to scriptpubkeys (also addresses) they actually generated or, at least, would have generated. Otherwise someone can just create a 1 of 2 {them, you} multisig and then claw back the coins after you think you've been paid. As such there is no risk of anyone sneaking in CLTV locked funds for on you except by virtue of spectacular software bugs that would likely cause you to destroy funds in a zillion other ways first.