From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A8740CE5 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 21:39:22 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-ua0-f172.google.com (mail-ua0-f172.google.com [209.85.217.172]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47E99734 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 21:39:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ua0-f172.google.com with SMTP id c2-v6so3001377uae.4 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 14:39:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=zG6u/5mg77STaTs0UgWkzlvBW/m547/zlW9u3xGgeeY=; b=T7ABUH5NMwqvrP3lWGCacEZ9je5I8kjP9L28aM3zzGkmfucgferR+hs1LtAtONy5oA PcUlE/H/l3g5rcFs7Wn9s3+Xje0loCd3bMqBUyOMo6LKcZhMO2Skb9zKmdJSfVAQb6q6 88yJcqH9y9oHqSzD/m3SS5Vx05NkHhBKC9sW0oo4II+cwMybflJTkMpoFbD3dRGWTvV7 KTNJQ+m9ZpQftpLK6z8XR4CMD5/vE7cWt34IOp6mbAJ4TSuKDfCfzPun4skMUgKgYFHl umSjK68rPkmm4NG9K77MeOCDFfzA3QEg4ITm45vHoQ5IPbKnO1a/aBGVmGoQ6ueM9I+o AYRQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=zG6u/5mg77STaTs0UgWkzlvBW/m547/zlW9u3xGgeeY=; b=Bbx1E9L5QYVE6vgmqppDrKGEtN+wN8AnBQnNlVDwMwnFYfOrKfv1DT9+qcGPQxX5gb z8Evq5rzVdPEQxBj2LijVuA+sgvaWGFvBBynYkZb6Y5GfIjzczkM1QuGFIilZP0iDPQF lzUx2AQlX76/rsWMb59lNyhbo33DKrxPbN+CgDYpI1xkIiBaD1qDqrn0Es16eOulBZUp 8ylu5p8PwTgHm0dQ8B/zGubvkUhMzu5ijsK8+3Wtxg/e+LdmkSfydnwqxDlB6FK5FXr1 RQthlHTXhdSngSO8nX34EbjOmf+djaSz81WfG/4djFXMYYH0QsMqaOrwZj0dos74t+lN eDEQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E0J2lSSiZ4pndo30SqEQwC8ka/AqQcfiXgdjEkWfmnDPv2RZFca 6WYcoZgdViskT1as7g10Q5Ciu5gUfOg9Fs0sQ4w= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKLoso3o9Tl0kLSfKM2gHr0oqNSOrcZPYJldXAzWkzaTaLXbJXhXsXR4GlXIJyVCq0rJP4kfAtn0iffZeNQW3G0= X-Received: by 2002:ab0:18ee:: with SMTP id d46-v6mr17537738uah.39.1529617161370; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 14:39:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: gmaxwell@gmail.com Received: by 2002:a67:5193:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 14:39:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20180621195654.GC99379@coinkite.com> References: <21a616f5-7a17-35b9-85ea-f779f20a6a2d@satoshilabs.com> <20180621195654.GC99379@coinkite.com> From: Gregory Maxwell Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 21:39:20 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: uE-z9ZqmtlQ9VbOcBLLtYaz4QhY Message-ID: To: Peter Gray , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP 174 thoughts X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 21:39:22 -0000 On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 7:56 PM, Peter D. Gray via bitcoin-dev wrote: > PSBT is something we need, and has been missing from the ecosystem > for a long time. Let's push this out and start talking about future > versions after we learn from this one. When you implement proposals that have little to no public discussion about them you take the risk that your work needs to be changed when other people do actually begin reviewing the work. It is incredibly demoralizing as a designer and a reviewer to have proposals that were put out for discussion show up implemented in things with these vested interests then insisting that they not be refined further. I think kind of handling is toxic to performing development in public. Although it's silly enough that it won't happen, I think our industry would be better off if there was a social norm that anytime someone insists an unfinished proposal shouldn't be changed because they already implemented it that the spec should _always_ be changed, in order to discourage further instances of that conduct.