From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 350A18CC for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 08:02:47 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-it0-f53.google.com (mail-it0-f53.google.com [209.85.214.53]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 84193EB for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 08:02:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-it0-f53.google.com with SMTP id z6so9269010iti.4 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 00:02:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jamin-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Ndj38KAnupBJPsfHvvWyiht3hkniLSZPXU7ceZbOiQ8=; b=EpkdhUq4uf6N7qD6P75EY1l1n6dH+BM4DrjuHIsWKeMe+tJYxvNOoLvVmaehrT5Iy5 LlP6LUHVOkVvD/a0AYAmzk1VLLL6NAaXeWykLytAhYrP5PI3TU+T73dKzFNUvQd9Hm2o Pt2KlS5YaLE0Y7/zqCsXdol/+sOOX7cbS05AelxVfKl/bUkt+gGJEbmD8NXbpuRZMVfL l50Dzwy0P/rsxqlTt90GyJsb1CEJYDisFIOOTCfjJJHivLWDh9sQgSxy9uVzKMw1xLQg sSWlKvzld1ZYhyOTszf/R0jg5r6KnqI+eJVCxPEod+S+5zEpfndQqnKotTtwiYa4L7Gz a7Tw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Ndj38KAnupBJPsfHvvWyiht3hkniLSZPXU7ceZbOiQ8=; b=PCXovDFWXeHQ3ZsUlltKVnK37+Phu/k1EgPcKsA0fA0+iWNbVyxcUyR0ATgL4ElQna L5rT3UJTG0oc5+iiJfItV4kLKfhhctdgNQpNZcCGc8uamhYrgOcMKG9M3i3nM66poj5g ayq26xaCX2sN0G2INZkpu94NrJ2Sm3nnixy1gLEPslH+TIKvC/QtqXDU+nPzx6lY7s21 3ELIuYOjNHyn4Y7d0HUj89M8fj9qC7NLp03iMeIGio/Qxf83JfptBHaWjunzkOxQxB2M IS4l36MD6puriJczjUdv9m1HsbBzXkorWSUKmHyAXF2iouDfz1LJimuvjRxWpwhOnkIJ kn+A== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mItoHhEDpaeI0Vi01sRno8a2ZH9IuxEys9I9N1WgqntdOsdK5Pw BY4WzPf4TWVC0obJE9cB7nm1UAPAE/712+i0stx0Pw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBotQgkrdWlSPsvkxzvWc6Bju+GU4STPNQHGMGCp4AIaVFnBPHYReLsYowvFYJxI5U6YkeckzKx5mJGA0nxTSs14= X-Received: by 10.36.95.5 with SMTP id r5mr2422818itb.70.1513238565230; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 00:02:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.2.35.140 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 00:02:44 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20171213213607.ijlvqwpdaokucgi6@fedora-23-dvm> References: <20171213213607.ijlvqwpdaokucgi6@fedora-23-dvm> From: Marcel Jamin Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 09:02:44 +0100 Message-ID: To: "David A. Harding" , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, LOTS_OF_MONEY, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 20:56:31 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposal: Utilization of bits denomination X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 08:02:47 -0000 On 13 December 2017 at 22:36, David A. Harding via bitcoin-dev wrote: > - Microbitcoins is not a homonym for any other word in English (and > probably not in any other language), whereas "bit" and "bits" have > more than a dozen homonyms in English---some of which are quite common > in general currency usage, Bitcoin currency usage, or Bitcoin > technical usage. Reposting /u/BashCo's post on reddit here, for visibility: ---8<--------------------------------------------------------------- > Before anyone says 'bits' are too confusing because it's a computer scien= ce term, here's a list of homonyms [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t= rue_homonyms] that you use every day. Homonyms are fine because our brains = are able to interpret language based on context, so it's a non-argument. Al= so, the term 'bits' was used in reference to money long before 'bits and by= tes' came along, and even before the metric system itself. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit_(money) > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_colonial_real > 'Bits' are superior to mBTC partly because we'll need to transition to bi= ts eventually anyways (one transition is easier than two), but more importa= ntly, bits have two decimal places, matching the format of dozens of other = major currencies. > No other currency has 8 decimal places, or even 4 decimal places. Most of= them have 2. Dollars and cents, Bits and satoshis. > If people actually want this to happen, then they need to train their own= brains by switching their wallets and exchange settings to bits. The shift= will probably happen eventually, although the major Bitcoin denomination p= robably isn't going anywhere any time soon, even if the majority of people = use 'bits' as a matter of habit. > 99.99 bits is currently equal to $1.63 USD. ---8<--------------------------------------------------------------- > > - Microbitcoins trains users to understand SI prefixes, allowing them to > easily migrate from one prefix to the next. This will be important > when bitcoin prices rise to $10M USD[1] and the bits denomination has > the same problems the millibitcoin denomination has now, but it's also > useful in the short term when interacting with users who make very > large payments (bitcoin-scale) or very small payments > (nanobitcoin-scale).[2] Maybe a table of scale can emphasize this > point: > > Wrong (IMO): Right (IMO): > --------------- -------------- > BTC BTC > mBTC mBTC > bits =C2=B5BTC > nBTC nBTC > I wouldn't expect people to type out =C2=B5BTC. I think the best you can hope for here is uBTC. As for saying "microbitcoins", I can virtually guarantee that this will be abbreviated to "microbits" and/or eventually "bits" anyway. Bits and sats. > [1] A rise in price to $10M doesn't require huge levels of growth---it > only requires time under the assumption that a percentage of bitcoins wil= l > be lost every year due to wallet mishaps, failure to inherit bitcoins, > and other issues that remove bitcoins from circulation. In other words, > it's important to remember that Bitcoin is expected to become a > deflationary currency and plan accordingly. > > [2] Although Bitcoin does not currently support committed > nanobitcoin-scale payments in the block chain, it can be supported in a > variety of ways by offchain systems---including (it is hypothesized) > trustless systems based on probabilistic payments. > > Thanks, > > -Dave > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >