From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50BBBE6E for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2015 09:17:43 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-ig0-f177.google.com (mail-ig0-f177.google.com [209.85.213.177]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 653CBEC for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2015 09:17:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ig0-f177.google.com with SMTP id mv3so65175796igc.0 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2015 01:17:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=U8SJiN7EB8KxZp7nYAToHYHxhEfB0VQ5vIONGGcY7pY=; b=fD2KVejGCSmfcA4HotrVO5ZWh4Q66XOKnIInXbchDWte5vZrJu1qdyKP7dVe7G8/Po 2deao3D8BQzV/E3p/UPb6mQz2Ejqsi36DARWa7ED0VE3qntrgF44J66nnOfRR2Zx2syj jqXSJQCQVspDqA5MQnfEM75ym9VoVVzx2pHWjqByIjdrtVCkuzFnMIr7OCnN2rVpAOgT faFe0sZ/jRfkvmPB+a6GuE+uz36dz+aDlLTjm3e0FzSTW37jgGVL3GqA8kr3Tig4VuM5 QDea2BJYAi/RahVKLLIdOq/B5vqo7/+zHlxFw3Jl0gCSaqPdaoFdS7BzPJwjD3W6qyvs Ycyw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.78.231 with SMTP id e7mr12604901igx.93.1449998258868; Sun, 13 Dec 2015 01:17:38 -0800 (PST) Sender: nbvfour@gmail.com Received: by 10.36.20.130 with HTTP; Sun, 13 Dec 2015 01:17:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <50e629572d8de852eb789d50b34da308@xbt.hk> <1449961269.2210.5.camel@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2015 01:17:38 -0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: ICI3TYWHtUUjHNqoTsjJQsKYUTM Message-ID: From: Chris Priest To: Gregory Maxwell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Forget dormant UTXOs without confiscating bitcoin X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2015 09:17:43 -0000 > In none of these cases do you lose anything. Nor do you gain anything. Archive nodes will still need to exist precisely because paper wallets don't include UTXO data. This is like adding the ability to partially seed a movie with bittorrent. You still need someone who has the whole thing has to be participating in order for anyone to play the movie. This isn't going to kill bitcoin, but it won't make it any better. Every paper wallet would have to be re-printed with UTXO data included. It doesn't even solve the core problem because someone can still flood the network with lots of UTXOs, as long as they spend them quickly. On 12/13/15, Gregory Maxwell wrote: > On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Chris Priest wrote: >> Lets say it's 2050 and I want to sweep a paper wallet I created in >> 2013. I can't just make the TX and send it to the network, I have to >> first contact an "archive node" to get the UTXO data in order to make >> the TX. How is this better than how the system works today? > > You already are in that boat. If your paper wallet has only the > private key (as 100% of them do today). You'll have no idea what coins > have been assigned to it, or what their TXids are. You'll need to > contact a public index (which isn't a service existing nodes provide) > or synchronize the full blockchain history to find it. Both are also > sufficient for jl2012's (/Petertodd's STXO), they'd only be providing > you with somewhat more data. If instead, you insist that you'd > already be running a full node and not have to wait for the sync, then > again you'd also be your own archive. In none of these cases do you > lose anything. >