From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1WXAjp-0000xa-DG for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Mon, 07 Apr 2014 14:41:29 +0000 X-ACL-Warn: Received: from mail-wg0-f52.google.com ([74.125.82.52]) by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1WXAjn-0002T4-JW for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Mon, 07 Apr 2014 14:41:29 +0000 Received: by mail-wg0-f52.google.com with SMTP id k14so6834785wgh.11 for ; Mon, 07 Apr 2014 07:41:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=5rZdMbr9bHdi0iGZFuN+Qck0b7OsMO64jHh8ZStLlVs=; b=VWJgtNZqwRVHnkKvcFqfi2qPjatBKxriwDxKmP02Jyg+mcjmw1eq+okEysI16XISN3 5KVkFrqDKWGNzy0+WphJRgF8BF5D8AFsFlmIJDHFKlaJd/6+1yxJwecQrxnLLZsPQk+X l9rnbipk/AygaiRctwWQr4nJyrI4CgjMvG0l9LRIy078+YG69Vds/lYZZTWRBrrqd7sh C4KlKIkXTclIZbRDMaXDl1aLFfxxmDv8IZLWYAS6aqV3aLu+lIu8IWB9T95qa6RvypE6 t44+zks4ARa/MRU1TH2KhuvLc45VZVOTH4VRCYQBbaXJyUP6Dwb9Qiq5jUyOwZWthAAi IXEA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQm0LORXSNW9hhKPwELF963uA03SshmrPktF9LiktGJRpZhCBN5ekYM6clFiOkC+kfojwnXy X-Received: by 10.194.205.35 with SMTP id ld3mr2255220wjc.82.1396880117623; Mon, 07 Apr 2014 07:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-f176.google.com (mail-wi0-f176.google.com [209.85.212.176]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id er4sm26688650wjd.38.2014.04.07.07.15.16 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 07 Apr 2014 07:15:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wi0-f176.google.com with SMTP id r20so5154250wiv.15 for ; Mon, 07 Apr 2014 07:15:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.7.198 with SMTP id l6mr25935925wia.52.1396880115494; Mon, 07 Apr 2014 07:15:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.6.8 with HTTP; Mon, 7 Apr 2014 07:15:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.6.8 with HTTP; Mon, 7 Apr 2014 07:15:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 10:15:15 -0400 Message-ID: From: Eric Martindale To: Mike Hearn Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d044287c0142ab304f6747f62 X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Headers-End: 1WXAjn-0002T4-JW Cc: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net, Andreas Schildbach Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Why are we bleeding nodes? X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2014 14:41:29 -0000 --f46d044287c0142ab304f6747f62 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 We need to make it so mind-numbingly simple to "run Bitcoin correctly" that the average user doesn't find reasons to do so in the course of normal use. Right now, Coinbase and Bitstamp are winning in the user experience battle, which technically endanger the user, and by proxy the Bitcoin network. Multi-sig as a default is a start. It won't succeed unless the user experience is simply better than trusted third parties, but we need to start the education process with the very basic fundamental: trusting a third-party with full access to your Bitcoin is just replacing one centralized banking system with another. Eric Martindale Developer Evangelist, BitPay +1 (919) 374-2020 On Apr 7, 2014 7:05 AM, "Mike Hearn" wrote: > My guess is that a large number of users have lost interest after they >> lost their money in MtGox. The 24th of February coincides with the >> "final" shutdown > > > Sigh. It would not be surprising if MtGox has indeed dealt the community a > critical blow in this regard. TX traffic is down since then too: > > > https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-popular?timespan=60days&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address= > > Judging from comments and the leaked user db, it seems a lot of well known > people lost money there (not me fortunately). I wish I could say people > have learned but from the size of the deposit base at Bitstamp they clearly > have not. A lot of Bitcoin users don't seem to be ready to be their own > bank, yet still want to own some on the assumption everyone else either is > or soon will be. So it's really only a matter of time until something goes > wrong with some large bitbank again, either Bitstamp or Coinbase. > > Some days I wonder if Bitcoin will be killed off by people who just refuse > to use it properly before it ever gets a chance to shine. The general > public doesn't distinguish between "Bitcoin users" who deposit with a third > party and the real Bitcoin users who don't. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Put Bad Developers to Shame > Dominate Development with Jenkins Continuous Integration > Continuously Automate Build, Test & Deployment > Start a new project now. Try Jenkins in the cloud. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/13600_Cloudbees_APR > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > > --f46d044287c0142ab304f6747f62 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

We need to make it so mind-numbingly simple to "run Bit= coin correctly" that the average user doesn't find reasons to do s= o in the course of normal use.=A0 Right now, Coinbase and Bitstamp are winn= ing in the user experience battle, which technically endanger the user, and= by proxy the Bitcoin network.

Multi-sig as a default is a start.=A0 It won't succeed u= nless the user experience is simply better than trusted third parties, but = we need to start the education process with the very basic fundamental: tru= sting a third-party with full access to your Bitcoin is just replacing one = centralized banking system with another.

Eric Martindale
Developer Evangelist, BitPay
+1 (919) 374-2020

On Apr 7, 2014 7:05 AM, "Mike Hearn" &= lt;mike@plan99.net> wrote:
My guess is that a large number of users have lost interest after they
lost their money in MtGox. The 24th of February coincides with the
"final" shutdown

Sigh. It would n= ot be surprising if MtGox has indeed dealt the community a critical blow in= this regard. TX traffic is down since then too:


Judging from comments and the leaked user db, it seems = a lot of well known people lost money there =A0 (not me fortunately). I wis= h I could say people have learned but from the size of the deposit base at = Bitstamp they clearly have not. A lot of Bitcoin users don't seem to be= ready to be their own bank, yet still want to own some on the assumption e= veryone else either is or soon will be. So it's really only a matter of= time until something goes wrong with some large bitbank again, either Bits= tamp or Coinbase.

Some days I wonder if Bitcoin will be killed off by peo= ple who just refuse to use it properly before it ever gets a chance to shin= e. The general public doesn't distinguish between "Bitcoin users&q= uot; who deposit with a third party and the real Bitcoin users who don'= t.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------
Put Bad Developers to Shame
Dominate Development with Jenkins Continuous Integration
Continuously Automate Build, Test & Deployment
Start a new project now. Try Jenkins in the cloud.
http:= //p.sf.net/sfu/13600_Cloudbees_APR
_________________________________= ______________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-develo= pment@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de= velopment

--f46d044287c0142ab304f6747f62--