From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <natanael.l@gmail.com> Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8ABD4CFB for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; Wed, 2 Mar 2016 08:39:10 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-wm0-f49.google.com (mail-wm0-f49.google.com [74.125.82.49]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC0FD10C for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; Wed, 2 Mar 2016 08:39:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wm0-f49.google.com with SMTP id p65so67212194wmp.0 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; Wed, 02 Mar 2016 00:39:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc; bh=050lFHxlXukFjKWNPCX+XxVJCBrtRmUoe70sb/AbYkc=; b=MYcNYRKgrLeCFbqgAd7Wdkem7gxxRGg4Z2QfCzAI38E5IUPQBso7LiTLzu938EtY+K U4+S52K75gmYpY3Pf94A7D/gsSikOJfnirI9kXVR7KVU7TqNA7367jcE5VskyJwLOpxX blYznEj7EPQ98SYb7aWslnnzYapgZVX/v1lCBI2VAmR0UWe+9H7YWvfBrrnZP1Mt0DlX NOtiY/YyL/O363x8aCItQrZY0SGG0LWLkAkxsKXcshDErciNauiw3TzXAakbTBZ1cd+w X32JlK/v1bkxGl3tgGRuLUai3N2yGV+/Uvind5defWIKG0+dRXdrX/6H7LKvKTXmuDCp 4gQw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=050lFHxlXukFjKWNPCX+XxVJCBrtRmUoe70sb/AbYkc=; b=nNRst86IXQdfBO77PjwAxnXB7wkFj8zhi2uFNUtiB1PQZcyu4pMZwgR+bYE9Q0rz9w sgB7OFaIA5n3A1oz6sEv932+IPBaK8fVq093RfgSsPlS1fMlNANmEJ+mANZ2iQnyVIx4 0D8TVXU4GizJkJO5mzGiJqXVBs/k80ygyV/okxd3fe4sLI9RqMOiWTx8N5p+cr33EzE8 +GNzoHosUM9Ct2CUkAfOYJLIaRAgDxZcAkuCLU4fag3AfJUONmscwwOk/tS4tPN5Y8vL iscJAxKAYjcVONuODnB8aMM4wpHoh8qXH6oTrZP4FFDmw34bu/izXzLzhWQAe52mAAgg Jcow== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJKDeJu8EiIMcVQ8kUJ+AQefUDCoxdGZ4nU7gjZ2uWGx0P5cQVEL+mgdlHYLvuLGG314wh3Etilvm/fciA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.28.0.86 with SMTP id 83mr3444009wma.63.1456907947452; Wed, 02 Mar 2016 00:39:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.23.195 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Mar 2016 00:39:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.23.195 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Mar 2016 00:39:07 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <CAPkFh0tx6BJ2=pCamtawa=niPfci7-a6Vs-wFo3rXXx6oks0Jg@mail.gmail.com> References: <CAPkFh0tx6BJ2=pCamtawa=niPfci7-a6Vs-wFo3rXXx6oks0Jg@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 09:39:07 +0100 Message-ID: <CAAt2M197OWV1euFX5x+9A0K=0tTMamrTbXS=2KWX=ZKyPMyXAQ@mail.gmail.com> From: Natanael <natanael.l@gmail.com> To: =?UTF-8?Q?Emin_G=C3=BCn_Sirer?= <el33th4x0r@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113c8852adb045052d0cd0ed X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 14:59:45 +0000 Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin Guarantees Strong, not Eventual, Consistency. X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/> List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 08:39:10 -0000 --001a113c8852adb045052d0cd0ed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To say that Bitcoin is strongly consistent is to say that the memory pool and the last X blocks aren't part of Bitcoin. If you want to avoid making that claim, you can at best argue that Bitcoin has both a strongly consistent component AND an eventually consistent component. The entire point of the definition of eventually consistency is that your computer system is running continously and DO NOT have a final state, and therefore you must be able to describe the behavior when your system either may give responses to queries across time that are either perfectly consistent *or not* perfectly consistent. And Bitcoin by default *does not* ignore the contents of the last X blocks. A Bitcoin node being queried about the current blockchain state WILL give inconsistent answers when there's block rearrangements =3D no strong consistency. Not to mention that your definition ignores the nonzero probability of a block rearrangement extending beyond your constant omega. Bitcoin provides a probabilistic, accumulative probability. Not a perfect one. Den 2 mar 2016 04:04 skrev "Emin G=C3=BCn Sirer" < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>: > > There seems to be a perception out there that Bitcoin is eventually > consistent. I wrote this post to describe why this perception is complete= ly > false. > > Bitcoin Guarantees Strong, not Eventual, Consistency > > http://hackingdistributed.com/2016/03/01/bitcoin-guarantees-strong-not-ev= entual-consistency/ > > I hope we can lay this bad meme to rest. Bitcoin provides a strong > guarantee. > - egs > > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > --001a113c8852adb045052d0cd0ed Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <p dir=3D"ltr">To say that Bitcoin is strongly consistent is to say that th= e memory pool and the last X blocks aren't part of Bitcoin. If you want= to avoid making that claim, you can at best argue that Bitcoin has both a = strongly consistent component AND an eventually consistent component. </p> <p dir=3D"ltr">The entire point of the definition of eventually consistency= is that your computer system is running continously and DO NOT have a fina= l state, and therefore you must be able to describe the behavior when your = system either may give responses to queries across time that are either per= fectly consistent *or not* perfectly consistent.</p> <p dir=3D"ltr">And Bitcoin by default *does not* ignore the contents of the= last X blocks. A Bitcoin node being queried about the current blockchain s= tate WILL give inconsistent answers when there's block rearrangements = =3D no strong consistency. Not to mention that your definition ignores the = nonzero probability of a block rearrangement extending beyond your constant= omega. </p> <p dir=3D"ltr">Bitcoin provides a probabilistic, accumulative probability. = Not a perfect one. </p> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">Den 2 mar 2016 04:04 skrev "Emin G=C3=BCn S= irer" <<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bit= coin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>>:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockq= uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc = solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div>There seems to be a perce= ption out there that Bitcoin is eventually consistent. I wrote this post to= describe why this perception is completely false.=C2=A0</div><div><br></di= v><div><div>Bitcoin Guarantees Strong, not Eventual, Consistency</div></div= ><div><a href=3D"http://hackingdistributed.com/2016/03/01/bitcoin-guarantee= s-strong-not-eventual-consistency/" target=3D"_blank">http://hackingdistrib= uted.com/2016/03/01/bitcoin-guarantees-strong-not-eventual-consistency/</a>= <br></div><div><br></div><div>I hope we can lay this bad meme to rest. Bitc= oin provides a strong guarantee.</div><div>- egs</div><div><br></div></div> <br>_______________________________________________<br> bitcoin-dev mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.= linuxfoundation.org</a><br> <a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" = rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail= man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br> <br></blockquote></div> --001a113c8852adb045052d0cd0ed--