From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org (smtp2.osuosl.org [140.211.166.133]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E88EC002D for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2022 13:28:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2694540520 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2022 13:28:38 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org 2694540520 Authentication-Results: smtp2.osuosl.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20210112 header.b=TQ7aWuZQ X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.848 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.848 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SRtId3SD4wJh for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2022 13:28:37 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org C55A740135 Received: from mail-ej1-x633.google.com (mail-ej1-x633.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::633]) by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C55A740135 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2022 13:28:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ej1-x633.google.com with SMTP id q9so33448800ejd.0 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2022 06:28:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=hIeP0wiKFRiyZOf9gIkECcYNXxLsASZsnSrg2rC9NCU=; b=TQ7aWuZQM8uNUMdE5yOlEX03HHzMC4R2dXRwbgoYVahviV9liRfdr3hA1oiTrOfGPp oLydFcivNWyRj1XbOw5kk6KdS33luUaLlRdjtPeFBCta6KAY6GY3gvJr/+MscYNUk/xL zy3nwK3peiYPBw8vSKUR91aAJBzf3xH60+Iem8J1ttuQoba7+yEAk+JABeSRQQXOCjra YebqOvpnmXDQ1SwtxuCuoqB9vLAqjlRy/nRgXNmAYZsutPwgg2lst+K+d/0gUX85Hptq 9tV73EjO0zcl3QxY2vFa0rvFeJz7jCxGyrJ0/FPHSGwzIRQHYBnk4UGBthtdssK32MFo X8Pw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=hIeP0wiKFRiyZOf9gIkECcYNXxLsASZsnSrg2rC9NCU=; b=CtXrWGj0/WIUb+7p5O9KKv/cHuxHInb0fTDXuPaCKEp9zvnFpC6oNOdcRrlAjefQfV NiLJusg27uqwCWB1Pnl6zldlIAk/bNns0mjddkFL5GehSyM91C/NtxEIv2K2v4H+d+Ia tOaeXBGQ6U6gw9RHz1OenDUF0PU+rNX2qsNdxBziHmOk+pnTiYgieNtx+RG7S9z2qun3 5N3RROS9Kol3l4H2+mBrk/AVHy6IFvWdusqv2G1fZH6/SeIEtKPO08aPJw3mMzf6Enar wiKaWC1VQ5s9ApVSaf/z7hZXx1t8xk8OKoqYdv4ku2hpq7c55nOLxMyy8c5IVcDKJNtp tOOA== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf2Vza61XtjFJAlwFg5g1zu193AXM8JzTP2+mBJ9aB/n+QohDelr O3tgWZ/6at1OCWh1g2c1LX6bEHOk5mNLQA0sbaaKL0pw X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM5+zUxHnNz0KzvxFSvV6xWLvQmYGZZPV7EjzlV7RmFxYh1EO37pnXhb9zjn9YjRexCs6EXmRE/Nb3b1jyDoKBA= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:cc0f:b0:78d:ee0f:cdf6 with SMTP id ml15-20020a170906cc0f00b0078dee0fcdf6mr3742308ejb.543.1665581314690; Wed, 12 Oct 2022 06:28:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <689ed481-e7eb-4fea-8ca7-578503f3f285@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <689ed481-e7eb-4fea-8ca7-578503f3f285@app.fastmail.com> From: Greg Sanders Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 09:28:22 -0400 Message-ID: To: John Light , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009b560105ead65ee7" Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Validity Rollups on Bitcoin X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 13:28:38 -0000 --0000000000009b560105ead65ee7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Thanks for the writeup John, Is there a one page cheat sheet of "asks" for transaction introspection/OP_ZKP(?) and their uses both separately and together for different rollup architectures? On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 11:52 AM John Light via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > Hi all, > > Today I am publishing "Validity Rollups on Bitcoin", a report I produced > as part of the Human Rights Foundation's ZK-Rollup Research Fellowship. > > Here's the preface: > > > Ever since Satoshi Nakamoto first publicly announced bitcoin, its > supporters, critics, and skeptics alike have questioned how the protocol > would scale as usage increases over time. This question is more important > than ever today, as blocks are increasingly full or close to full of > transactions. So-called "Layer 2" (L2) protocols such as the Lightning > Network have been deployed to take some transaction volume "offchain" but > even Lightning needs to use _some_ bitcoin block space. It's clear that as > bitcoin is adopted by more and more of the world's population (human and > machine alike!) more block space will be needed. Another thread of inquiry > concerns whether bitcoin's limited scripting capabilities help or hinder > its value as electronic cash. Researchers and inventors have shown that the > electronic cash transactions first made possible by bitcoin could be given > new form by improving transaction privacy, supporting new types of smart > contracts, and even creating entirely new blockchain-based assets. > > > > One of the results of the decade-plus research into scaling and > expanding the capabilities of blockchains such as bitcoin is the invention > of the validity rollup. Given the observed benefits that validity rollups > have for the blockchains that have already implemented them, attention now > turns to the question of whether they would be beneficial for bitcoin and > existing bitcoin L2 protocols such as Lightning, too. We explore this > question by examining validity rollups from several angles, including their > history, how they work on a technical level, how they could be built on > bitcoin, and what the benefits, costs, and risks of building them on > bitcoin might be. We conclude that validity rollups have the potential to > improve the scalability, privacy, and programmability of bitcoin without > sacrificing bitcoin's core values or functionality as a peer-to-peer > electronic cash system. Given the "trustless" nature of validity rollups as > cryptographically-secured extensions of their parent chain, and given > bitcoin's status as the most secure settlement layer, one could even say > these protocols are a _perfect match_ for one another. > > You can find the full report here: > > https://bitcoinrollups.org > > Happy to receive any comments and answer any questions the bitcoin dev > community may have about the report! > > Best regards, > John Light > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > --0000000000009b560105ead65ee7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for the writeup John,

Is t= here a one page cheat sheet of "asks" for transaction introspecti= on/OP_ZKP(?) and their uses both separately and together for different roll= up architectures?

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 11:52 AM John Light via bitcoin-de= v <bitcoin-dev@= lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
Hi all,

Today I am publishing "Validity Rollups on Bitcoin", a report I p= roduced as part of the Human Rights Foundation's ZK-Rollup Research Fel= lowship.

Here's the preface:

> Ever since Satoshi Nakamoto first publicly announced bitcoin, its supp= orters, critics, and skeptics alike have questioned how the protocol would = scale as usage increases over time. This question is more important than ev= er today, as blocks are increasingly full or close to full of transactions.= So-called "Layer 2" (L2) protocols such as the Lightning Network= have been deployed to take some transaction volume "offchain" bu= t even Lightning needs to use=C2=A0_some_=C2=A0bitcoin block space. It'= s clear that as bitcoin is adopted by more and more of the world's popu= lation (human and machine alike!) more block space will be needed. Another = thread of inquiry concerns whether bitcoin's limited scripting capabili= ties help or hinder its value as electronic cash. Researchers and inventors= have shown that the electronic cash transactions first made possible by bi= tcoin could be given new form by improving transaction privacy, supporting = new types of smart contracts, and even creating entirely new blockchain-bas= ed assets.
>
> One of the results of the decade-plus research into scaling and expand= ing the capabilities of blockchains such as bitcoin is the invention of the= validity rollup. Given the observed benefits that validity rollups have fo= r the blockchains that have already implemented them, attention now turns t= o the question of whether they would be beneficial for bitcoin and existing= bitcoin L2 protocols such as Lightning, too. We explore this question by e= xamining validity rollups from several angles, including their history, how= they work on a technical level, how they could be built on bitcoin, and wh= at the benefits, costs, and risks of building them on bitcoin might be. We = conclude that validity rollups have the potential to improve the scalabilit= y, privacy, and programmability of bitcoin without sacrificing bitcoin'= s core values or functionality as a peer-to-peer electronic cash system. Gi= ven the "trustless" nature of validity rollups as cryptographical= ly-secured extensions of their parent chain, and given bitcoin's status= as the most secure settlement layer, one could even say these protocols ar= e a=C2=A0_perfect match_=C2=A0for one another.

You can find the full report here:

https://bitcoinrollups.org

Happy to receive any comments and answer any questions the bitcoin dev comm= unity may have about the report!

Best regards,
John Light
_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
= bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail= man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
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